Mx Justin Vivian Bond: Backwards and in High Heels

Dynamic singer, songwriter and Tony nominated performance artist Justin Vivian Bond has a new book out, “Tango: My Childhood Backwards and in High Heels,” and the book is as raw, original, electric and poignant, as V is.  V stopped by the studio this week to talk about the new book, and the experience of growing up a gender-variant child in a small town.

Ron Bennington: Justin Vivian Bond is in studio with us, brand new book, Tango: My Childhood Backward and in High Heels, welcome.

Justin Vivian Bond: Thanks for having me.

Ron Bennington: You couldn’t have been more honest in this book.

Justin Vivian Bond: Well…I think it’s easier to be honest than to try and be clever.

Ron Bennington: Was it a cathartic thing for you to put out some of these stories? Because I expected one type of book to come out of you, but this is really just childhood stuff.

Justin Vivian Bond: Right, I wanted to tell this one specific story. It was the story of my childhood from when I was four to when I was sixteen. And when I was ten I became lovers with the neighbor boy who was also my bully at school. And about two years ago I was diagnosed with ADD around the same time he was arrested for impersonating a drug enforcement agent outside of our town and it came out that he was bipolar and had delusions of grandeur.  And I thought you know what? I think he had those same things when we were kids. I probably had ADD when we were kids. So I went back and looked at my childhood through the lens of that and also my relationship with him and sort of looked at some of his motivations as well. Because I had sort of, really hated him. And I think that by looking back at everything that everyone did and understanding why they did them, yeah, it was cathartic. It made me lose a lot of anger and rage that I had been carrying around.

Ron Bennington: So the anger that you had was towards him but now you’re thinking, hey maybe he was a victim himself, of his own chemistry…

Justin Vivian Bond: We were both victims of the society in which we lived. And even our parents were. As a sort of gender-variant child who didn’t fit in to the norms of what boys were supposed to do— my parents felt that it was their responsibility to change me or guide me to be more comfortable around other boys, or play with boys or do boys things. It was a drag for them as much as it was for me, I think, but they thought they were doing the right thing.

Ron Bennington: Just last night there was a movie on TCM from the 50s called Tea and Sympathy, where they were working that stuff out then. And here we are fifty years later , and I still think that parents get frightened if the kid isn’t normal– for lack of any other word.

Justin Vivian Bond: Right and their idea of what normal is. So I’m just writing this book basically, to expand the idea of what normal is. It’s not to say it’s okay to be a freak– which I think it is. But it’s really to help people to be comfortable with a broader spectrum of what the possibilities are, and to allow people to be in pursuit of happiness.

Ron Bennington: But no interesting person has ever been normal. The whole idea of genius is the exact opposite of normal. And for a kid like you growing up in West Virginia…

Justin Vivian Bond: It was Maryland actually…it was very close…

Ron Bennington: ….you’re supposed to get out of that town, no matter what happens.

Justin Vivian Bond: Yeah, as soon as I could I got out.

Ron Bennington: And I wonder why…I know the anti-bullying thing goes on. But at some point it should be, you’re going to leave here kid, and this part of it is going to help you. Knowing what’s in your rearview mirror, to me is the American Story. I don’t know why we act like things are going to be okay with kids, when it’s a rough thing to be a kid.

Justin Vivian Bond: And things are never okay. It does get better I guess, in that you grow to love yourself if you’re lucky. But it doesn’t get better because life is hard, and people aren’t always nice.

Ron Bennington: When you put this book out there was it still like– now I don’t have these secrets– this is kind of exposed to the world?

Justin Vivian Bond: When I wrote it, it was pretty exhausting because I went back and re-lived all of this and it was sort of at the behest of my friend Amy who is my editor at feminist press. She said, oh you should write this story. I didn’t really realize how exhausting it was going to be to re-live all of this. Then I wrote it and sent it to her, and then there was a lag period between the time I finished it and the time it came out. And then all of a sudden it was as if the whole thing was fresh again because it was about kind of, a public exposure at the age of ten. Not public indecency– but everybody knowing my secret. I didn’t come to terms with what was the truth of it and what was not. I just wanted to deny it all. No one said it’s okay to be gay. If someone had said that, maybe it would’ve been easier. And so I didn’t come to terms with it. But now I have come to terms with my gender identity and all of that, but still it’s like, all of a sudden this story is out for anyone to bring up whenever they want to, whereas before I had more control over it. But its kind of a liberating thing I guess. And I’m glad I did it.

Ron Bennington: Yeah that is true. Once you put that out there, anyone at a book signing or out in the streets can just bring that up to you.

Justin Vivian Bond: But the interesting thing is, since I’ve written my story, and since I’ve become comfortable with it– a lot more people are sharing their stories with me. And I think before, I would have been really uncomfortable listening to their stories because I still hadn’t healed from mine. Now it’s kind of made it possible for me to hear a lot other people’s stories. So it’s opened up this really great level of communication, and I guess empathy or something? I’m finding all these people that relate to me but I can actually relate to them which is kind of nice.

Ron Bennington: I want to just tell you, a couple of years ago I went to the McGarrigle Christmas Pageant that they do at Carnegie Hall. So many fantastic people are there– Lou Reed is there and Laurie Anderson is there– Rufus Wainwright and his whole family. And you came out and did a song– it was a Christmas song– and just blew the place away. I’ve worked in radio a long time, and I’ve been to a lot of shows and I never saw anyone walk out and knock over an audience like that– literally bringing the house down.

Justin Vivian Bond: I wrote that song, specifically for that night, so I was a nervous wreck. It was the first time I’d ever sung it.

Ron Bennington: You are kidding me! Were you aware at that point of how some people started sobbing and other people were so moved during that song? It’s very rare to see a performer own a room the way you did that night.

Justin Vivian Bond: Well thank you. Carnegie Hall– it was the third time I’d played there, I did two Kiki and Herb concerts there – and that room is just sacred ground to me. So when I walk out on that stage, there is just this magic of the history of the place. I don’t take it for granted. So it was amazing– I could just feel chills in my body when I did it, you know? But I don’t know if it’s from the audience, I just know how much it means to me.

Ron Bennington: There’s been some talk about you doing a musical too. That you’ve been writing a musical.

Justin Vivian Bond: I’ve been writing one, yes. With Sandra Bernhard.

Ron Bennington: Now Sandra Bernhard is, to me, one of the great performers that we’ve ever had. One of the few people, who brings comedy, sexuality and hipness together.

Justin Vivian Bond: And her love of music.

Ron Bennington: Yes! So what’s happening between you two, is that still open? Are you working on it?

Justin Vivian Bond: Yeah, we’re working on it. We’ve written a first draft, and we had a concert version of it at Joe’s Pub in the spring. So now we’re trying to just get our schedules together and figure out who to work with to workshop it, hopefully this spring.  And we’ll see what happens from there. Between the two of us and our schedules, and theaters and their schedules and everything, it’s just so hard to get what seems like a simple thing– but we don’t have a barn. If we had a barn in Central Park we’d just go put the show on in the barn.

Ron Bennington: You sing, you write, you act, you do all these things. Is that something you set out to do as a kid. Because [in the book] you don’t even get that much into your love of show business.

Justin Vivian Bond: No there’s no show business. Just some tv shows and things I liked when I was a kid. But when I was a kid I knew I wanted to be a performer, there was no question about that. So I think that my next book will have more of that in it, I would imagine.

Ron Bennington: What I love too, is that you go back to this thing– when you’re admitting the Sandy Duncan fixation. And you had this line where ‘I wanted to be Sandy Duncan and then wear glasses, and then get a brain tumor so I could show the world what I’m really made out of.’ I just cracked up so hard. Because it’s that thing when kids are seeing where attention goes, but you don’t exactly know why– so you’re like ‘just give it to me!

Justin Vivian Bond: I just want that brain tumor so everybody will know! (both laugh) I know it was funny, I’m remembering all that.

Ron Bennington: Was there a certain music that kind of saved you and got you through that period? You talked about hanging in your girlfriend’s room forever.

Justin Vivian Bond: We listened to a lot of Elton John, and I was, and still am,  a huge fan of Judy Collins. Because my cousins were these Christian girls who were older than me, and they had some Joni Mitchell and a couple of Judy Collins records before they got really serious and gave up all their secular music. So when they gave up their secular music, I got Judy Collins and I got Joni Mitchell and they gave me all of their records. I particularly loved Judy Collins so I always listened to her when I was feeling down. Cause she has that beautiful soprano voice. I actually met her. I saw her perform at the Carlyle and then I was on a panel with her on the Intrepid for that New York One on 1 Anniversary. And I was so excited, I felt like I was stalking my birth mother. Cause she sang all these lullabies that calmed me down when I was really young.

Ron Bennington: And those kind of things opened you up to other people….

Justin Vivian Bond: Yeah, the thing about Judy Collins was, that she would cover Leonard Cohen; Jacques Brel. Her records weren’t just folk music. So I’d go to the local library and find out about Jacques Brel and find out about Leonard Cohen because of her music. So I was introduced to Bob Dylan and all of these amazing people just by following her path of what songwriters she chose. In that regard, she had a big influence on me, because I don’t sing in any particular genre. Even on my CD, Dendrophile which came out in the Spring, I did half originals and the other half were covers by Joan Baez and Joni Mitchell and Nina Simone and people like that. But that, I can say is directly from having been so obsessed with Judy Collins when I was a kid.

Ron Bennington: It was the tougher thing too, when you grew up in the suburbs, to find out about stuff. You need that opening door.

Justin Vivian Bond: And it wasn’t like I was proving how cool I was by listening to Judy Collins back then either. Hahaha!

Ron Bennington: At what point did you say to yourself, though, I’m going to get out of this town. It was New York for you from the beginning?

Justin Vivian Bond: Or California. I had relatives in California, but I thought if I wanted to be a serious actor, I’d better study in New York. And I had a shrink. My parents took me to this person when I was having difficulty in middle school. And she said, your parents are willing to pay for you to go to college. When you graduate from high school, you’ll go to college and you’ll meet people that are not like the people in this town. People that you can relate to. People that will accept you. So if you can just somehow manage to keep your head down, and keep your grades high enough to graduate from high school, then you can leave. And that was the best advice that anybody ever gave me. Cause I just thought, alright, I’m going to just do this, I’m going to get through this. And I became as invisible as I could and I just got through it. I graduated on a Monday and I was out of there on Thursday.

Ron Bennington: There’s a part of the book that’s pretty heartbreaking where you went to your mom because you were feeling anxiety and she kind of took it all personal, and basically more or less outed you, at a pre-little-league age.

Justin Vivian Bond: Yea, she didn’t do the best thing, at that time.

Ron Bennington: But you’re able to be understanding about that now. You’re not blaming.

Justin Vivian Bond: I know she came from a place of love. Whether it was from a place of wisdom is debatable, but she came from a place of love. And that is one thing– even if I wasn’t accepted by my parents, I always knew they loved me and they wanted the best for me even if they didn’t know what the best was.

Ron Bennington: And you didn’t have a quit or a suicidal bone in your body, it seems. It seems like you were ready to stick it out.

Justin Vivian Bond: I wanted to run away. But I’ve always been the kind of person who would be much more likely to shoot someone else before I’d shoot myself. (laughs) My father says I get that from my mother’s side of the family– we don’t have ulcers, we give them.

Ron Bennington: Looking back over this, are there things you wish you’d have done differently? When you re-live this stuff, are you saying, I wish I would have went in this direction?

Justin Vivian Bond: Oh yeah, I don’t think I could have done anything different back then. I was a kid and my decisions were based solely on fear and excitement and desire. If I had it all to do over again, I would have paid more attention in first grade when they were teaching math. (Laughs) That’s the only thing I regret that I didn’t learn some rudimentary things because I was too preoccupied with everything else. But again that might go back to the ADD.

Ron Bennington: And again, I don’t know if the entertainment business and math ever work out that well. Managers are good at it, but everybody else stinks.   The book is called Tango: My Childhood Backwards and in High Heels. It’s so great to have you come in here, and having the chance to tell you that I’m a big fan.  And I want you guys to finish this musical too.

Justin Vivian Bond: Thank you for having me. And tell everyone to come see me at Joe’s Pub. I’m there every Sunday starting October 30 for six weeks. It’s called Mx Bond’s Low Double Standards, An Evening of Cunning Covers.

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The interview can be heard in its entirety on Ron Bennington Interviews which airs on Sirius XM Satellite Radio on the Stars Too channel.  Don’t have Sirius XM yet?  Click here for a free trial subscription.

For more information about Justin Vivian Bond you can visit @mxjustinVbond on twitter or justinbond.com.

You can purchase the new book or Vs newest album by clicking the images below: