Gretchen Mol Knows How To Be Evil

Actress Gretchen Mol  is best known for her great performances in “Rounders”, “The Notorious Betty Page” and Woody Allen’s “Celebrity”. She is currently shocking audiences of HBO’s Boardwalk Empire as Gillian .  She stopped by the SiriusXM studios recently to talk with Ron Bennington about this season of Boardwalk Empire, and the play “The Good Mother.”  Excerpts from the interview appear below.

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Gretchen Mol Talks About her Boardwalk Empire Character, Gillian

Ron Bennington: The character Gillian is…let’s face it – Eeevil. (Gretchen laughs) Eeevil!

Gretchen Mol: No! No, are you kidding me?

Ron Bennington: After what happened?

Gretchen Mol: Just as evil as anybody else on the show. There’s such a double standard for the women.

Ron Bennington: Well, the truth of the women – and you’ve stayed strong to this, is they really are behind the eight ball. The women are the kind of Shakespearean characters because we’re still at a time where women couldn’t come and go and express themselves the way they do now. So they set up evil.

Gretchen Mol: They have their machinations. Yeah.

Ron Bennington: Is it fun?

Gretchen Mol: Very fun for me. Because I’ve never been cast this way before. And I didn’t know when I was cast whether I would be sort of ‘mother with a heart of gold’ – ‘mother bear’…I had no idea.

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Gretchen Talks About What’s Coming Up on Boardwalk Empire

Ron Bennington: Your cast goes in so many directions. Sometimes it’s hard to remember who’s mad at who. Who’s in whose world.

Gretchen Mol: Yeah. And they overlap all the time. So technically…I mean I don’t know. I just don’t know what the future holds.

Ron Bennington: How far ahead do you know your character?

Gretchen Mol: I know till the end of this season. So, there’s two more episodes.

Ron Bennington: But you’ve done some things so evil, that the character’s going to have to pay in terms of the way we think of…

Gretchen Mol: Yes, she may.

Ron Bennington: Sooner or later – that debt, that karma debt comes due.

Gretchen Mol: It does. It does. I mean I don’t know how it’s all going to…I’m certainly not at liberty to say. But also, I really don’t know a lot. But I do have to say that Nucky killed my son!

Ron Bennington: Yes.

Gretchen Mol: And what has she done? I mean…I arguably killed someone, but nobody knew him. (laughs)

Ron Bennington: Yes. This is what made yours more evil than anyone else’s. It wasn’t a revenge. It wasn’t…you just found someone who looked like your son – murdered him because he would fit the coffin perfectly.

Gretchen Mol: I didn’t write it. That’s all I can say.

Ron Bennington: Yeah. At least it was a morphine related death though, which is easier to take than some of the others. But yeah, your character of course is behind the eight ball with Nucky because he has all the power in the world.

Gretchen Mol: He does. Not so much now. I mean, yeah – he’s always trying to keep his power.

Ron Bennington: He’s always going to bob up.

Gretchen Mol: Yeah. He’s there. He’s Atlantic City right now.

Ron Bennington: But when you guys stared at each other like about a week ago – we’re like – well, one of them is going to get the other one. There’s no doubt. And they both know it.

Gretchen Mol: At some point. Yeah. I’ve been fascinated to know what our history really is and what the future for us really is. I mean to me that’s one of those things that they have done so well – the writers and…is eking out this information so slowly. I mean I’ve only had, I think two scenes with him. So all of the history is implied and through the other characters – through the Commodore and through Jimmy, but really we’ve barely ever been face to face in the show.

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Gretchen Defends her Character’s Motivations

Ron Bennington: For somebody to have a bigger couch, they will kill for it. And the scenes with you and your son Jimmy were just so twisted. I mean just sideways.

Gretchen Mol: I was just as shocked.

Ron Bennington: Were you? You just never know how this is going to come down, huh?

Gretchen Mol: I didn’t know. It was always sort of in the world of possible for those two, but I was shocked when I got that material. I really was. Michael [Pitt] claims that he was not…or that they may have even told him. But I really didn’t. I really didn’t think that it was so…I just really was shocked. And I didn’t know how to kind of go about it, but I think the way they played it in the scene – it was just a loving relationship. I mean I kind of came to understand how something as twisted as that could actually happen.

Ron Bennington: So you find yourself – because you have to support your character – almost defending incest.

Gretchen Mol: You always have to…absolutely. (laughs) Damn it!

Ron Bennington: I’ve never heard anyone say that.

Gretchen Mol: (laughs) What’s wrong with it? No!

Ron Bennington: At the bottom, yeah I can see how that can happen. But this is the thing about Gillian too – she looks for the worst kind of gangsters. It’s always a security thing for her, right?

Gretchen Mol: I think so. I mean I think she…the woman has no boundaries. Her upbringing…I mean everyone always cites this awful happening between the Commodore, but God knows what was her life before that even. That was probably a high point in her life. She got taken out of whatever awful circumstances as sort of an orphan – waif, she was on the boardwalk and then put into a situation which would be awful by anyone’s standards, but at least she was in a warm home with someone who was arguably kind of taking care of her intermittently. So, I mean I always go back to that and then I think – okay, and then she’s impregnated and then she doesn’t have any sense of how to parent or how to love really. So it’s all twisted up. So I do find myself able to kind of understand how she got there. It doesn’t mean I support it. I just do – I have to understand it.

Ron Bennington: Right, but you’re going to let yourself see it from her point of view rather than step back. Particularly now that we’ve stepped back 60, 70 years whatever it is. Because this is abuse and it does go on for generations. It keeps happening over and over.

Gretchen Mol: Yeah. Abuse begets abuse. Absolutely. Yeah.

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Ron Bennington: But I guess the great thing as an actor – you get to go to so many places that you wouldn’t normally get to do.

Gretchen Mol: That’s true. When you’re sort of depicting this person – and I mean I remember in the first season, other fellow actors would say – she’s batshit crazy. And I would think – really? I just don’t see it yet. Now I’m coming around a little bit. But I still – I think there’s hope for this woman. I really do.

Ron Bennington: You’re kind of a defense lawyer. (Gretchen laughs) You really are. You would be able to go – of course, you did this. You had no other way of doing it and I’ll explain that to the jury. So you find yourself defending?

Gretchen Mol: I just think – I mean I have to in order to be able to do the things she does. But I mean I know it’s a stretch. I do. But I’m on her side. I am. And I just feel in this world, that she is – she’s a scrappy, resourceful – I see her upside. I see the positive characteristics in her. (laughs) She’s smart. I mean they’ve written this person who is utterly resourceful and scrappy and kind of – isn’t going to…she may lose eventually, but it’s going to take a lot to bring her down. And that’s so fun for me to play.

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Being a Working Mom

Ron Bennington: You’re also on stage as you’re doing all this too. You still love to go back and work?

Gretchen Mol: Well, it’s been a long time. I have two small children and one is 5 and one’s almost 2. So I haven’t done any theater for a long time just because I thought the schedule would be too demanding. I mean it feels like doing a show like “Boardwalk Empire” would be demanding, but you work these long days and because it’s such a huge ensemble cast sometimes you have a whole week off. So I’m really able to…and being that I’m in New York – I’m really able to be around a lot and I just want to be. And this theater gig – it’s just definitely more demanding physically, mentally, everything. And time-wise, you know – rehearsals. And now that it’s up and running, it’s a little bit less.

Ron Bennington: You know that’s another thing where men and women are different. Because the men will go – okay, even though I’m the dad, I’ve got to be out there and I’ll see you guys later.

Gretchen Mol: Sure. Comfortable.

Ron Bennington: But women just never can…the motherhood thing is a 24 a day thing.

Gretchen Mol: Yeah. You can’t let go of it. I’m not saying – I don’t think men do either. And I think it’s shifted and you see men doing more of that sort of the stay at home stuff too. And that women really are going off to work and that balance has changed a little bit, but it is something that is deeper – it’s like you can’t get away from it. It’s the guilt – all these dang things about being a mother that are hard.

Ron Bennington: You can never do enough.

Gretchen Mol: It’s hard to find the right balance. And it’s a daily thing that you’re sort of trying to do. And it’s basically – what it comes down to is they’re fine – as long as you’re around a little – you know you’ve got to be around. They’re fine as long as someone’s loving them. And you just have to kind of have to be at peace yourself and not torture yourself.

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Gretchen Talks About Working in the Theater

Ron Bennington: And it is…it’s also – I try to point this out to people about going to theater – and I’m not talking about musicals – but you do…you’re working more in the audience. It’s not like when you go to see a movie and you just kick back.

Gretchen Mol: You are a part of it. You are. We need you. As the actors, you can feel the energy from the audience. The better that energy is – the better the show is. (laughs) It’s not fair because it’s your job to get up and do it and bring it, but it certainly is…something else happens with that live audience. And when they’re kind of with you and you feel them listening – it feeds you so much. And you end up kind of working together. It’s really really a pretty magical thing. It’s cool.

Ron Bennington: I think probably television has done this to us where we feel like we’re just observers as the audience, but I think in the whole thing of musical – going to see a band or going to see a comic – the audience does have to show up and be a part of it.

Gretchen Mol: You do. And I think especially with this one. It requires some real thought from the audience. And they are going to bring to it – there’s a lot of ambiguity there, so they’re really going to bring their own kind of psychological stuff to it. And it’s a different play for everybody.

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Gretchen Introduces her Kids to Her Work as an Actress

Ron Bennington:  Your kids are little – do they have any idea of the kind of work that you’ve done? Because not a lot of your stuff is for kids primarily.

Gretchen Mol: They can’t see it. Yeah, it’s not kid friendly. (laughs)

Ron Bennington: You’re not going to show them “The Notorious Bettie Page”.  This was one of mom’s great great roles.

Gretchen Mol:  No.  (laughs) Although some day – some day, they will and probably be horrified, but…

Ron Bennington: I don’t think so.

Gretchen Mol: I don’t know. But with “Boardwalk”, my son has come to the set and sees me with the wig and the whole thing and knows there’s this person named Gillian that I am pretending to be sometimes. And then he’s going to come to the theater this weekend and watch like the first 10 minutes of the show.

Ron Bennington: Just to know what you’re doing.

Gretchen Mol: Just to see it. And be around it. Yeah, because it’s kind of a cool thing to give them. They start to wonder at this age – why aren’t you home all the time? Where are you? What are you doing? And my son went through this stage where he was obsessed with Neil Young and I got him like a wig and he’s was like – he had a harmonica rack…(Ron laughs)…he would do the whole thing and so much of it was – not that he loved the music, but it was the acting of it. Pretending. Pretending to be Neil Young. It’s…and sometimes they pretend to be Superman or whatever, but Neil Young was pretty cool.

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Gretchen Talks About the Craft of Acting

Ron Bennington: So it comes naturally to children. Children just see things. They start to ape it – believe they can fall into it. And then when we’re adults, we stop doing that but somehow you have to push all that stuff off to be an actor. You have to get back into that.

Gretchen Mol: Well, it’s like lack of self-consciousness. I mean I think – I remember at age like 11 or 12, you sort of get like – oh, there’s people out there. And they’re watching it and I have to remember my song or whatever. I remember that – like the ease that I had as a 10 year old and then within the year – the shift of being scared. And so now it’s just about – yeah, to get back to that. To get back to the 10 year old person that was just like – why not?? Hey! Why not me? It’s hard, but it’s fun when you get there.

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Gretchen Talks about Her Other Roles

Ron Bennington: You’re not looking for it to be exactly the same when you’re doing a play. You want each night to be a little bit different.

Gretchen Mol: Yeah. And it has to be – you have to be able to let things be imperfect. Totally – I think that’s part of what I like anyway about it – is this sort of ambiguity and not knowing all the answers all the time. That’s the way – and maybe make for frustrating characters, I don’t know. Because I think that was true for “Bettie Page”. The way that film was directed and everything – it was not ever like – we’re showing you who exactly this person is. And I’m more interested in doing that. I’m presenting a bunch of facts and ideas and feelings about someone and then like you can decide if you like them or not – who they are.

Ron Bennington: Well, with that you had Mary Harron who was the director of that and she’s unbelievable. She’s just phenomenal. You’ve worked with Woody (Allen), all these people who are so different, but when you’re in a play – you’re kind of in a lot of ways directing yourself every night, right?

Gretchen Mol: Ultimately, the cool thing about theater is you’re in this rehearsal space and everybody’s… it’s a collaboration and you have to trust the director and trust every thing. And then once you kind of get up there the first – and it had been so long for me, but once the lights start coming on and it’s like the audience is black and you’re in the light – it’s like game on. You can kind of do – and the more free you are, the more fun it will be for you and the audience.

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Ron Bennington: Alright, Gretchen Mol – you can see her in “The Good Mother”. It’s off Broadway. 410 West 42nd Street. Check out thenewgroup.org for that. And also, “Boardwalk Empire”. No matter what she does – no matter what Gillian does – could be incest, murder, doesn’t matter. It’s all good. (Gretchen laughs)

Gretchen Mol: It’s all good!

Ron Bennington: She needs to do these things.

Gretchen Mol: See, she has to do it to survive.

Ron Bennington: Thank you so much for coming by. This was so much fun. I’ll see you next time coming through.

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Get more information on Boardwalk Empire on HBO.com.  Check out “The Good Mother” at thenewgroup.org.

You can hear this interview in its entirety exclusively on SiriusXM satellite radio.  Not yet a subscriber?  Click here for a free trial subscription.

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You can learn more about Ron Bennington’s two interview shows, Unmasked and Ron Bennington Interviews at RonBenningtonInterviews.com.