James Marsh’s “Shadow Dancer”

Director James Marsh is best known for his 2008 Academy Award winning documentary film  “Man on Wire.”  The film won over critics and audiences, and  in addition to winning the Oscar, also received a BAFTA and an Independent Spirit Award.  His second documentary feature film, “Project Nimh” also received great critical recognition.   He recently stopped by the SiriusXM studios to sit down with Ron Bennington and talk about his new film, “Shadow Dancer” which stars Clive Owen and Andrea Riseborough.  Excerpts from the interview appear below.

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Ron Bennington:  This is the best film I’ve seen so far this year. There is a tonality to this film. A tension in the opening scenes that stays with you throughout the film. And you have no idea where the movie is going at any given time.

James Marsh: Yes, that was the objective. Was to create a kind of – as you go into the story – something that fills you with a certain amount of foreboding and dread. And that sort of, hopefully, haunts the film from that point onwards. And the basic premise of the film, as you already know, as you do know because you’ve seen it. Is a young female IRA volunteer is caught in London, up to no good. And she’s then forced to go back and be a spy in your own house. On her own family. Which is, you know, intriguing and terrible situation to find yourself in.

Ron Bennington:  Yeah, these are people living in this world without hope. But the officers that are watching them are also without hope because they know that this thing has gone on for a long time. Any mistake that you can make can lead to loss of lives. And when you watch this, you think to yourself, “Well this is – we have a couple situations like this today.”

James Marsh:  We do, and I think that’s one of the reasons why I was curious to make the film now. To see how it resonates in the world we now live in. Particularly America. Lost your innocence 10 years, 11 years ago. And New York is a very different place now because of that. And London was in that situation throughout the 70s, 80s, and 90s. So yes I think it does resonate with people a different way now than it would have done maybe 20 years ago.

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James Marsh Talks About the History Behind the Film

Ron Bennington:  Well, I grew up in an Irish – in an American Irish Catholic neighborhood. Where the IRA was pretty popular and there were IRA t-shirts around. And I believe some of the adults had raised money for the IRA. A lot of that money that came for those weapons, came from America. Which is hard for us to believe now.

James Marsh: Well it was a different world then. I think it was a different world and I think Irish Americans had a very different perspective on the conflict. And many of them, of course, would have been forced out of Ireland because of the actions of the British government in the 19^th century and on and on. So I think everyone has their reasons. That’s one of the reasons that this conflict is so difficult to resolve, everyone has legitimate kind of grievances. And what you’re seeing playing out in the film is the beginning of the end of that , thank God. You’ve got the film kind of posits the idea that a dialogue is taking place and people are very cynical about how that’s being undertaken. But now we do have a much better situation in Northern Ireland. And it was interesting to show the film there. I took the film over to Belfast.

Ron Bennington:  And this was something that you could consider the way we look at Israel and Palestine where it feels like that’s never going to end. That’s the way we thought about Belfast most of my life. 

James Marsh:  It was, it really was. And what’s great now is that you have a generation of kids that have grown up without any knowledge of this, you know, in that direct experience of what we’ve sort of been aware of for most of our lives. Living in the UK, as I did, and London which was often subject to bombing campaigns. It was a general level of paranoia in London throughout this period of time. So there’s all hope now. I think that’s why the film can play in a different way. Because we do know this ended, we hope, with a sort of peaceful situation. Belfast now is very different than what it was 20 years ago when I was there.

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James Marsh Talks The Reaction to the Film Overseas

Ron Bennington:  I was curious to see how this played with English critics. Some that may have been alive during that time. Because it’s got to be a tough thing for people to see. 

James Marsh: Well actually, the film has got very good reviews in the UK and in Ireland as well. With the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. And I showed the film in Belfast, at the Belfast film festival, I was incredibly nervous about that. I had quite a few drinks before I went to face the audience. I sort of staggered on expecting kind of some hostility. But, in fact, people were very open to it. And felt that 20 years on from this peace process that we could now make these kind of films and show them as dramatic thrillers with Clive Owen. A movie star in it as opposed to being kind of ongoing grievance you have to take a side on. Which was always the problem with Irish movies. Which side are you putting yourself on as a film maker? And this film is quite neutral in that respect. Yes, you say it’s a cynical world and everyone is cynical within it and doing their thing. And so we got a good reception in Ireland and in England.

Ron Bennington:  It’s a tough thing to pull off too because, particularly back in Belfast, because people remember things and they also want accents and time periods to be perfect, because it’s their story. 

James Marsh:  Exactly.

Ron Bennington:  That is never an easy thing. So you have to really pay attention to that.

James Marsh: You do. And Andrea Riseborough, who is the lead character, isn’t from Northern Ireland. She’s actually an English actress, but her accent passed the test. She went to Belfast and spoke it, essentially, in preparation for the film. And she did a great job with that. And you’re right. Those details are very important to people if you’re dealing with a home territory.

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James Marsh Talks About Knowing When the Film Was Where He Wanted It To Be

Ron Bennington: James, with a film like this you really are walking that razor to make sure that you’re telling it perfectly. You had to feel somewhat nervous about if this thing was coming together. When did you know that you had the film that you could be happy with?

James Marsh: When we started shooting on the London underground, and it was the first day of shooting, it was a very difficult sequence. We couldn’t control the trains or movement of the trains, or even the carriages. We had to get on with a very small crew and improvise essentially, with Andrea the actress, and that all went surprisingly well. And I saw what Andrea was going to do with the character at that point, and so I guess after the end of the first day of shooting I thought, “Well here’s something that’s kind of promising.” And, as you know, the film – things go wrong everyday. Always behind schedule and all those problems that happen with any big collective of human endeavor. But I think I was very pleased with the way the actors worked together with each other on this film. They’re great performances if I do say so myself, Clive Owen and Andrea Riseborough.

Ron Bennington:  Well like I said, Andrea is just stunning, and I wasn’t familiar with her work so that helps me to jump into it. But with Clive Owen, this might be my favorite performance of his. Because he’s so good at playing internal. And it is such an internal role. I would be interested now, even to go back and see how much dialogue is in the movie. Because most of it just feels like you’re there with them.

James Marsh: We took it out as we were filming. We just started cutting things back. Particularly Andrea’s role, I felt the words were going to betray her. And the less she said, the better for the character and her situation. And Clive is a man, again, that you can photograph and he gives you so much. He’s such an iconic presence in a movie, and he’s a real movie star. But again, he plays a very disheveled kind of character. He’s not playing with vanity in this film.

Ron Bennington:  No, not at all.

James Marsh: He walks in sort of loping way. All which he worked on very carefully before hand, to show the character to me. So yeah, it’s not a film with lots and lots of dialogue in it. It’s visual in that way.

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James Marsh Talks About Family Dynamics in the Film

Ron Bennington:  This film, it starts in the 1970s, ends up in the 1990s. And in a lot of ways, you can feel that tension. You can see that the way the kids that were brought in at the beginning of this, those kind of childhoods would not exist. Before the troubles started happening and the tragedy happens, it felt like a family. In the 1990s you didn’t get that feeling of family again. That part of it was gone.

James Marsh: No, they lose their innocence so quickly and completely with the tragedy at the very beginning of the story, as you said. And by the time you get to the early 90s, you’ve got our main character Collette coming back to spy on her brothers and her mother. In her own house. Snooping in your own house, I mean we all do a bit of that I guess. From time to time. As sort of a metaphor for how families work with each other. But in this case, her life is at stake, she says the wrong thing over the dinner table and she’ll be taken away and she’ll not come back again.

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Ron Bennington:  It’s a stunning film, congratulations for it. And there’s not a moment in the film that you’re going to check your watch, or think about anything else. It’s “Shadow Dancer”… I went into it knowing very little. I think it’s a great way, just let the film tell the story. Thank you so much James, great to see you again, I’ll see you next time coming through.

James Marsh: Nice to be back, thanks a lot, cheers. Thanks.

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Follow James on twitter @JamesMarsh and get more information about “Shadow Dancer” at magpictures.com.

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You can hear this interview in its entirety exclusively on SiriusXM satellite radio.  Not yet a subscriber?  Click here for a free trial subscription.

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You can learn more about Ron Bennington’s two interview shows, Unmasked and Ron Bennington Interviews at RonBenningtonInterviews.com.