Ed Burns Is Home For Christmas
Edward Burns makes great movies. He began his career writing, producing, directing and starring in the award winning “The Brothers McMullen” and since then he has become known for his outstanding independent films. “She’s the One”, “Sidewalks of New York”, and “Nice Guy Johnny” are just a few of the films he created using remarkably low budgets and non-traditional distribution methods. He came by the SiriusXM studios this week to talk with Ron Bennington about his newest film, “The Fitzgerald Family Christmas.” Below are a few excerpts from that interview.
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Ron Bennington: I have to tell you this. I’ve already told you plenty of times, I’m a big fan of yours. This may be my favorite film that you’ve done yet. Because you write really good stuff about relationships, but I think you even top it with the family stuff.
Edward Burns: Well, thank you. It seems to be, most people are feeling that way. I took the film – the first place we screened it was up at the Toronto Film Festival. Back in September. And the only people who had seen the film prior to that were a couple of close friends and people who had worked on the film. When you’re in the process of – alright, does this work? Does the end work? Is the beginning too slow? And in all those screenings, we didn’t get a single laugh. We knew it’s…there’s some melancholy stuff in there, there’s some drama, there’s even..people cry at the end. But we didn’t know we had any laughs. We screened it Toronto for 500 people. From the first scene, they’re laughing. And I understand it’s not a big comedy, but we were surprised to find that there’s a lot of consistent laughs.
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The Family Dynamic That Everyone Relates To in The Fitzgerald Family Christmas
Ron Bennington: It’s relatable. That’s what the thing is. There’s so many small things in the film that you may think are just true of your family – particularly I think the way the adult children talk about each other.
Edward Burns: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ron Bennington: Do you know what I mean? Because you’re allowed to say – you know what? Your sister’s an asshole. Your brother’s a jerk. But it does not change the relationship that you have with them. You don’t have this with anyone else in your life.
Edward Burns: No, we’re stuck with one another. And I’m only one of three and I’m aware of the interesting dynamics between the three of us, but my best friend is one of nine. And another good friend of mine is one of twelve. So the stories that I would hear from these guys about kind of the inner workings of those dynamics. They would always talk about like – we had 9 kids. It’s broken into like 3 mini-families. The top 3, the middle 3, the bottom 3. And they all – sometimes the oldest 3 don’t even know the little kids which I stole in this film. There’s a bit of that. The great thing – one of them told me was, and this was about a friend’s family – like the oldest siblings in this house hated their father. When they were born, the father is like 22 years old, a drunk, under-employed..
Ron Bennington: Didn’t know what he was doing.
Edward Burns: Didn’t know what he was doing. By the time, 7, 8 and 9 showed up – he was sober, had gotten educated, had a great job and was like a big mush. So they said the holidays were crazy because he’d sit around the table and the younger kids are like – oh, dad’s a saint. They’re adoring him and the older kids think he’s a bum.
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Burns Talks About Surviving the Holidays with Family
Ron Bennington: It’s a Christmas film that you never get the Christmas spirit or there’s no magic of the season. But what really most of us are involved in at Christmas is obligation. And you’re a good person basically if you can fulfill these little obligations.
Edward Burns: That’s so funny. I never thought about that. Obligation. Yeah.
Ron Bennington: Obligation will really kind of…has replaced responsibility in our life. Like I’m going to do this thing and get it done.
Edward Burns: Yeah well, there’s that sense of also like surviving the holidays. I mean I guess that’s part of…alright, we’re going to over to your aunt and uncle’s house – like try to have a good time. So there’s a lot of pressure on any family at the holidays to kind of either survive or have a good time. And when I was writing the script, I had the notion of…I wanted to do a big Irish family. But I needed an excuse of how do I get 8 adult siblings, excuse me, 7 adult siblings under one roof and I needed a device. And then when I thought – alright, Christmas will work because obviously everyone gets together at Christmas, but then that also added like – it’s lends some plausibility to the fact that I wanted each character to have their own story arc or subplot. And you know with the holidays, it’s like – you’re going to go over to your parents house – you’re going to announce… alright – you’re going to propose to your girlfriend. We’re having a baby. We’re getting separated. All those things. And it’s also the…you get a couple of drinks in you and you might just mention that thing your brother did to you 6 months ago that pissed you off.
Ron Bennington: I love this part of the film too. That the girls are thinking – hey, you guys were more liked than we were. We all hear that – no one knows why. We know it’s the wrong thing and yes, it’s oddly true. That somehow the boys get a better ride out of this than the girls do.
Edward Burns: Yeah. There’s so many things like that, for example that when I sat down to write the script, I had some of these things in mind as you’re writing. The great thing that happens during the process, and especially with this screenplay – because I haven’t returned to the Irish-American family dynamic, my working class background in 15 years since “She’s the One”. The minute I started writing – I guess I was just sitting on a lot of memories and dynamics that I just remember from my childhood and the houses that I grew up in with my friends. Those kind of things just poured out.
Ron Bennington: When you were younger, you’re still pissed off about these things or making your own way. But as you get older, and no one understands why we have this family connection, but the back of you – even though you’re pissed, you still want to keep it. You still want that thing. And you don’t have that with other people.
Edward Burns: Well in that line I think my character has with Tom Guiry, the youngest brother – and they go back to the old tenement in Hell’s Kitchen. And I say to him – look, the old man is 70 years old. He’s not going to change now. He is who he is, so you either have to make a decision – am I going to be okay with that? Like – can I deal with this or not deal with it? But you’ll hear a lot of like adults talking about their parents like they’re expecting them to change. Hey look, game over man. I’m 65, if I was 55 – shit, I’m 44, I don’t want to change at all.
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Edward Burns Talks About Getting a Sense of Realness in The Fitzgerald Family Christmas
Ron Bennington: All the girls are just great. And what’s really great about this is the houses are even great. That this looks the way people live, not movie houses, but real houses.
Edward Burns: I’m writing the script. I’m imagining the Fitzgeralds grew up in my house in Valley Stream, Long Island. My folks have moved out of there, so when we’re scouting, I call my mom and I’m like – who back in the neighborhood you think would let us shoot in their house? She calls her friend, Tina Costello. Tina’s like – Eddie’s making a movie – of course he can shoot here. So that house is 6 doors down from where I grew up. So I’m making this movie on my block. I can remember watching multiple Super Bowls in that living room where Rosie’s sitting on the couch watching the wedding video.
Ron Bennington: Wow.
Edward Burns: So then, when we got that out, I was like – I called up my sister who lives in Rockville Centre and I was like – alright, we need some houses. I called up my buddy Tom Pecora, told him what we were doing. He’s was like – you’ve got to shoot at my mother-in-law’s house. So it was all about like trying to find real lived in spaces for people who came from and lived the same lives as the Fitzgeralds. As opposed to doing it on a set and having that sort of artificial vibe.
Ron Bennington: And even a set designer, I think they don’t even really understand the amount of clutter that a house has that makes it livable. Do you know what I mean? That just a house feels like people live in it and they have decided to pick comfort over design and flow and everything else.
Edward Burns: Yeah and the houses have a history. And that was sort of what we were going for.
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Edward Burns Talks About Returning to Write About the Irish American Family
Ron Bennington: Did you purposely stay away from the Irish-American thing for all these years?
Edward Burns: That question’s come up a lot. I did. I mean part of it was my life changed so dramatically after those first 2 movies. And I’m in Manhattan, it’s a very different life. So I think I wanted to explore those new chapters in movies like “Sidewalks of New York”, “Purple Violets”. I think part of it was – alright, can I still write about that place with any authenticity? It’s been awhile. So I was probably a little worried about that. And then once I did, I was…I happily discovered that absolutely – I hadn’t lost anything. Like the minute I started writing – it takes me 6 months to write a first draft. This took me 6 weeks. I think the reason is like I knew the world so well. I knew every character, where they were from, what they were thinking about – like where do they go to school, where do they go church, where do they drink, what are they afraid of. And the voices were really kind of clear and distinct. And that’s always a tough thing with writing a screenplay.
Ron Bennington: To make everybody an actual person and not the same voice coming over and over.
Edward Burns: Yeah, to have sort of individual personalities. We have a big ensemble. A lot of times, what you’ll find – even for me as the writer, I’ll be like – alright, if I just hand this to someone right now and I took the character names off – through the dialogue alone, would you be able to identify who the character is? That’s a test of have you found a clear voice for that character. And this one was a script where I think you could have done that.
Ron Bennington: Particularly I think the women. We’re used to really defined men’s roles, I think when we watch movies. But to have the women work as like – man, I think I went to school with these girls. I would know these girls very very well. There was a thing – I don’t want to give too much away, but the fact of the way they all dress on Christmas Eve happens in families. No one knows. I have no idea how this took on. It didn’t happen…and yet I see it over and over. I’ve never even asked women why they do that. And so when that scene comes in and they’re just dressed that way, it was amazing to me.
Edward Burns: Yeah, yeah. That, I’ve got to give a lot of credit to the actors. The way I’ve been working on these last couple of films is much more sort of collaborative in every part of the process. I allow them…I’m no longer as precious as I was about the dialogue. I like to let them improvise a little bit. And also like – you tell me…I’ve given you the guidelines for who I think this person is – you tell me who she is. So a great example would be like – Kerry Bishé who plays the youngest daughter. A lot of her stuff wasn’t in the screenplay. We knew that she was sort of the brat of the family. But the idea that – we’re trying to look at that big event when the old man leaves. Each character had to be affected by him in some really clear way. She was the only one that didn’t have it. And at some point, close to where we started shooting, she said – look, I’m this young kid. I grew up without a father. Those girls tend to date older guys. What if that’s my thing? The minute she said that – that worked. Caitlin Fitzgerald, talking about her character, she came up with all of her wardrobe. She’s like – I think she’s this girl and showed me some pictures. I said – you’re absolutely right. Let’s do that. So I’ve got to give them a lot of credit.
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Burns Talks About Growing Up Just Outside of New York City
Ron Bennington: So many guys have gotten fame who grew up close to the city – whether it’s Jon Stewart and Jerry Seinfeld, you go on and on. People who could take the train to the city and have the place to kind of tell their stories – almost have better careers than people who grew up in the city. And only know the city.
Edward Burns: I think we might be a little hungrier for the dream.
Ron Bennington: Okay.
Edward Burns: We don’t look at this big great town from afar. Like all us bridge and tunnel kids, it was about – you gotta get across the river and tap into that thing. And when you showed up, like you didn’t take it for granted. It wasn’t your backyard. You had to come and sort of prove that you were worthy.
Ron Bennington: And everyone gets their ass kicked at first.
Edward Burns: Oh yeah.
Ron Bennington: Everybody gets laughed at and pushed.
Edward Burns: Yeah, big time. No, and I mean like the kids who grew up here – they kind of mocked the bridge and tunnel kids. So we definitely had a chip on our shoulder. And the other thing I think is like there’s something about the outer boroughs where…somebody said – we don’t come from towns, we came from neighborhoods. You took a lot of pride in your little pocket. And somehow – I don’t know – something about that, you took with you sort of across the bridge.
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Burns Talks About the Suburbs
Ron Bennington: Well, oddly this storm has reminded us of this because it’s hit some of those neighborhoods and you see people who live in – I don’t know, a 6, 8 block thing for generations – wouldn’t think of leaving because they love that lifestyle that they’ve made.
Edward Burns: Well it’s sort of the extended family. Or it’s sort of clannish in a way. And there is neighborhoods in that they…like the houses in the film – the neighborhoods have real history.
Ron Bennington: The store’s always been there. The liquor store has always been there. People know you. And also, there’s even a scene where a guy’s acting up in your film against one of the girls – a guy comes across the street. That only happens from living too close.
Edward Burns: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ron Bennington: When you have enough…when you live in big houses far away, you’re not looking out – you’re like this is a gated community, we’ll call the police. But when you come across the street to break some shit up, that means that you see those people as your own.
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Edward Burns Talks About an Upcoming Sequel to the Brothers McMullen
Edward Burns: The funniest thing happened when we were shooting that film. We were shooting that scene, we were shooting in Queens Village and we’re shooting the scene where (Michael) McGlone is going off on Dara Coleman and we have the fictional – the actor neighbor come over. A guy from 2 houses down came down the street to sort of help out as well. Thinking that this was a real deal. (laughs) Which was pretty hysterical.
Ron Bennington: McGlone…when’s the last time – you did that short film with him…
Edward Burns: Yeah, yeah.
Ron Bennington: How far back do you go?
Edward Burns: “She’s the One”. “McMullen” and “She’s the One”. So it’s been a good – I guess whatever, I don’t know – 16 years now.
Ron Bennington: That’s strange because everyone considers you two guys together.
Edward Burns: Yeah.
Ron Bennington: It’s one of those things, but it’s also…he’s one of those guys that’s very good with your dialogue.
Edward Burns: And that’s why I sort of regret the fact that not only did it take me so long to get back to that Irish-American working class stories – because I had such a good time and I think it’s my best film. And I think it just…I feel like I nailed this one. Working with Mike, and also Connie Britton, but Mike and I have that like – just a good dynamic on screen. And he gets my dialogue. So after we finished, I was like – look, we’re not going to wait another 15 years. And I’ve actually already started to outline a sequel to “The Brothers McMullen”, for that very reason.
Ron Bennington: Just to get that whole gang back together, yeah.
Edward Burns: Oh yeah. And I just…going back there, it felt true. And I was like – of all the films I’ve made, those would be the characters I would be the most interested in sort of exploring and picking up where they are 20 years later.
Ron Bennington: Great to see you again, buddy. I’ll see you next time coming through.
Edward Burns: Hey man, awesome to see you as always.
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Follow Ed on twitter @edward_burns.
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You can hear this interview in its entirety exclusively on SiriusXM satellite radio. Not yet a subscriber? Click here for a free trial subscription.
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You can learn more about Ron Bennington’s two interview shows, Unmasked and Ron Bennington Interviews atRonBenningtonInterviews.com.
