Bobcat Goldthwait Unmasked with Joel Murray

Everyone knows Bobcat Goldthwait from his one-of-a-kind standup act in the 80’s and 90’s, and of course from the Police Academy movies.  If you haven’t been aware of what he’s been up to lately, you’ve been missing out.  He’s been making great films– dark comedies like “Sleeping Dogs Lie” and “World’s Greatest Dad” and more recently, “God Bless America.”  He came to the SiriusXM studios to talk with Ron Bennington about his current film “God Bless America” along with the star of the film, Joel Murray.

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Ron Bennington: It’s a pleasure to have you here man, and I’ve got to say the film is just fantastic.

Bobcat Goldthwait: It’s great to see you, I haven’t seen you in a long long time.

Ron Bennington: But you kind of still stay on the road as well as…

Bobcat Goldthwait: …as well as make movies, cause there’s a connection with a live audience that you….(long pause) I ran out of money. My movies, Ron, they make hundreds of dollars. (laughs) So I actually like the fact that I get to do standup and then I get to make these small movies on my own terms. I don’t go through the studio system. So for better or for worse, they are my voice.

Ron Bennington: I have a hard time when people say what are these films like? I don’t even know who to compare you to. There is such an original voice coming there, that I couldn’t say, “you’ve got to put him into black comedy or whatever it happens to be.”

Bobcat Goldthwait: It’s funny because Joel [Murray] and I have been out promoting. And black comedy– well that’s a Tyler Perry movie. (laughs) At no time is there anyone playing an obese mother in a fat suit. But, this one I actually do feel is a black comedy. The other ones are dark but this one is by definition.

Ron Bennington: But I think what confuses is, you don’t go for the joke in the normal way.

Bobcat Goldthwait: No, I’m not really interested in punch line kind of driven jokes. That to me doesn’t ring true. My favorite comedies that make me laugh are things like Curb Your Enthusiasm and Extras and shows like that, where you feel really awkward. This is not very highbrow but I think the biggest influence in the movies I make was a scene in Crimes and Misdemeanors where the character of Woody Allen’s sister is explaining that she met a guy through a dating ad, and then he tied her up and crapped on her. Spoiler alert, if you haven’t seen Crimes and Misdemeanors. And Woody Allen is like, he’s so repulsed and shocked and it’s one of the biggest laughs I’ve ever had in a movie. And that is kind of what I based my career on as a filmmaker. That, oh my god this is so horrible that we really shouldn’t be laughing at it.

Ron Bennington: And yet, it seems like you’ll start your films with something horrific.

Bobcat Goldthwait: …that you have to get past. Are you still in? This one, we shot a baby at the beginning of this movie, about two minutes in. But in my defense that baby was an asshole. He’s a real prima donna. He’s a little coke-y too.

Ron Bennington: So you’re giving people, “hey if you want to get out, now is the time.”

Bobcat Goldthwait: Yeah, I don’t want them going, like 35 minutes in, “pshaw, I’ve never been more offended in my life.” You can’t have a rom/com and then 45 minutes in a woman blows a dog. You’d be really mad. I throw it up front. You’re either in or you’re out.

Ron Bennington: But when it does come to American culture, you can’t not think, wow we’ve really fucked up bad. I mean, we’ve really lost our way.

Bobcat Goldthwait: And it’s really weird because of how fast it progresses. A quick description of the movie is– Joel Murray (audience applauds) Joel’s here. He plays a guy whose life is horrible. He’s diagnosed with a brain tumor– no wait it gets funnier– and doesn’t really get to see his kid who clearly is turning into a horrific clam. She’s just a little girl, but the writing’s on the wall. And he’s about to commit suicide, actually, and then he sees a show like My Super Sweet Sixteen, and instead of committing suicide that night he drives 400 miles and he shoots that girl in the face, and it’s witnessed by her classmate who’s really excited. She goes, “did you kill Chloe?” He doesn’t say anything and she’s like, “awesome.” So then they’re off and running. It’s a very violent movie about kindness.

Ron Bennington: I think this could have been on a double bill with Network. But when they did Network, you were like, TV will never be that bad. But when we watch your film, I was like, I think it’s even worse. I think you were being kind.

Bobcat Goldthwait: Oh it is. It’s so accelerated. The bar keeps getting lowered and lowered. There’s a line where Frank says, “remember when eating rats and maggots on Survivor was shocking? It all seems so quaint now.” And he says,”I’m sure the girls from Two Girls One Cup will have their own dating show on VH1 at any time now.” Some of my references in the movie are dated because I actually wrote it a few years ago, but also I said, I’m out. I’m out kind of. I don’t watch those programs anymore. Occasionally I’ll slip but I’m just done. The movie’s also about the distractions of our culture. Instead of dealing with your own life, it’s easier to obsess on reality stars and things like that.

Ron Bennington: Well I think that’s the difference too, between this and Network. When you go back to that, it was in the 70’s they said “look at what the media is doing.” But in this film I feel like, it’s like “look at what the audience is doing.” I mean at what point do we take some fucking responsibility for this and say, enough of this shit?

Bobcat Goldthwait: Thanks, that is the point of the movie. It isn’t a vigilante movie about killing reality stars, although that does happen in the movie. It is supposed to dump it back on us. What is it about us, and can’t we do a little better, and aren’t we interested in things. And I don’t expect everything should be some blowhardy kind of socio-political conversation. We’ve really lost contact with just talking to each other.

Ron Bennington: And quite frankly, I don’t think you could have done this without Joel Murray.

Bobcat Goldthwait: Joel is so amazing. What I love about his is that Joel– you empathize with the character but you don’t pity him. You don’t go, oh this guy’s a poor schlub. It’s easy for me to project myself when I’m watching him.

Ron Bennington: Joel for you, I thought that you played it so emotionally…kind of hurting that you start to physically hurt. Just the physical toll in this.

Joel Murray: I went to a pretty dark place to put a gun in your mouth. And I just had a buddy about a year ago kill himself putting a gun in his mouth so it was kind of a nice stretch for me at this point. When I got hired at Madman, Matt Weinert, the executive producer said “you’ve got this sadness about you man, and it’s so great. I’m like, I dunno, I’ve got a really nice wife. I thought I was pretty happy. No, you’re sad.

Bobcat Goldthwait: Joel, on Shameless…

Joel Murray: That was sad too. That guy who kills himself was here.

Bobcat Goldthwait: He was like, “I don’t know what’s happened in my career that I can tell the caliber of a gun by the taste.”

Ron Bennington: When you read this script, did you think to yourself, is this a little too far for me? Or right away were you like fuck yeah, let’s take this ride.

Joel Murray: Well I had passed on a part in “Sleeping Dogs Lie” because my agent read two pages and would never send it to me. He said, there’s this disturbing thing here that I’m not going to pass on to you. Eventually he gave it to me about a month later. When I saw “World’s Greatest Dad”, I was very jealous that I wasn’t part of Bob’s filmmaking in that one. I was in Shakes the Clown– the original Bobcat players.

Bobcat Goldthwait: A misconception about me, is people think I am on drugs. It’s because I don’t talk about being sober, but I’ve been sober for thirty years. I got sober when I was 19. But I had back surgery and I was so fucking high on pills when I gave him the script, that I forgot to tell him. He’s like, being all cagey. He was like “what do you want me to do?” What do you mean what do I want you to do?

Joel Murray: But I jumped at it. Not a lot of people offer me leads in movies. I’m usually the buddy. Or some guy. Or apparently some guy who is going to kill himself. But it was a great role. I had a little trepidation about maybe there would be some feedback or some backlash from people that I killed or types of people that I kill in the movie. But so far they haven’t come to the house.

Bobcat Goldthwait: No and I think most people understand that it is a comedy. And all of the movies that I’ve made recently– the last three certainly– they’re like little fables. It’s not based in any kind of reality that I’m aware of.

Joel Murray: I mean there’s a mass killing montage with like, a cutout car that goes across the map of the United States, so we’re not taking ourselves too seriously with this one.

Bobcat Goldthwait: …to a Rosemary Clooney song. So…yeah man.

Ron Bennington: Well you say you do this low budget. But you’ve got a great soundtrack, you’re shooting all over the country, and the movie looks great.

Bobcat Goldthwait: Yeah but we do it really ghetto. The car in the movie- I picked it because I knew I’d be able to rent it at Hertz all around the country, seriously. And we put the same bumper stickers on, and then we have a paper license plate. And then we’re driving over the George Washington Bridge, and Joel calls me, and I’m filling from another car. He’s like, “hey man, I’ve got a paper license plate, and I’m going over the bridge.” Ah well. If they ask you about the minor or the fire arms, just stay in character because I’m going to roll.

Ron Bennington: New York cops are just so easy to get along with, and explain shit to.

Bobcat Goldthwait: But in Times Square, one cop came over “what are you doing?” I go, ah it’s the news. And then he could give a rat’s ass. Then people would start looking down the lens, right into the lens, busting the take. Cause we were stealing shots in Times Square. So I would just start wiggly dancing like a hippy at a Phish concert. And I was just acting like real spazzy weird dance and people would just look at me and say, “that’s Bobcat Goldthwait. That’s really sad. I wondered what happened to him. He’s like the naked trucker now.”

Ron Bennington: Just to pull them from looking at the shot?

Bobcat Goldthwait: Oh yeah, they’d go looking at the lens, and then I’d start doing this weird dance. By the way, I didn’t even think about it. As soon as I saw them busting my take I’d just start dancing. And it worked, you know?

Ron Bennington: Well Coppola used to have to do that during the Godfather, so it’s a long tradition.

Bobcat Goldthwait: Just to keep James Caan happy.

Ron Bennington: You guys have done how many projects together? You guys go back what, twenty five years?

Bobcat Goldthwait: This will be what the third thing right?

Joel Murray: Four if you count Scrooged.

Bobcat Goldthwait: Oh shoot yeah. We were in One Crazy Summer…

Ron Bennington: It’s one of those weird 80s films that no one ever turns off.

Bobcat Goldthwait: We were only half joking about trying to get the band back together and do One Crazy Autumn. The idea would be like Cusack’s character– cause at the end of that movie he wants to be an animator– so, my idea was that he became a huge success as an animator but he lost his sense of humor and he went a little nuts. So all the guys get together and try to save him.

Ron Bennington: At the time did you like making films?

Bobcat Goldthwait: You know I was really kind of an ungrateful prick in those movies. My attitude could have been a little better. Although maybe I had a healthy attitude. You’re on a Police Academy Set, and this scene, these dogs are humping, and they have flashlights, and you guys are watching them. That was an actual direction I got. And I actually said to the director– I forgot this story– I was like, “could you show me where the dogs are humping?” The poor sixty year old guy is down on the ground, miming dog humping. I go, “great I got it, thanks.” He was doing the off camera humping. But it didn’t go, “action” and then “raaaaaaahhhhhrrrrrrr”, “you’re not going to get one better than that, BC.” “I’m a genius! I’ll be in the trailer if you need me.”

Ron Bennington: You know while we’re talking about this, I just thought of this– Joel’s the only one here who has been in a reality show before. With the brothers right?

Joel Murray: Well that was surreality. Well that was a fictitious round of golf based on a luxury golf resort. That’s what I call the greatest scam ever.

Bobcat Goldthwait: Which brother came up with that idea?

Joel Murray: That was my idea (everyone laughs). I was at a party and this guy who worked for Comedy Central said, so you got anything? And I completely made it up right there on the spot, “well I’ve been thinking of doing this thing with my brothers, Bill and Brian and Johnny and I where we go to a really nice luxury golf resort for like a week and a half and we tailor the script around the resort, a legend and lore kind of thing. Like if we went to St. Augustine, we’d find the fountain of youth for Brian, kind of thing. Something like that, you know it’d be a fictitious round a golf and we were always playing for a kind of cup or something like that.” And he’s like, “can you tell that to my boss tomorrow?” And Debbie Liebling green lighted it and the minute she green lighted it, she got fired. So nobody ever kept track of us and we made this show and I wrote, directed and produced it. So Billy would show up and I’m like, so what did you think of the script? “Yeah, I’ve uh, I’ve been meaning to read that. It had a good weight to it. When do we tee off, seriously?” But we’d play two holes of golf and then we’d shoot a scene. Then we’d play a couple more holes of golf. That’s how we had to actually do this just to lure them in. And put Billy in a GPS cart so we could– well apparently he’s back from his massage and he’s on the seventh hole and he’s coming at us. We could actually call the club house and they could tell me where his GPS cart was on the golf course. That was just the best scam. We went down to Jamaica, brought all the writers down to Jamaica. We had a lot of fun on that one. But it wasn’t reality. That was scripted. We paid people.

Bobcat Goldthwait: I think my life is surreal cause I was on Letterman when I was 20 and I’ll have these strange stories, but his are even way crazier. Just being a teenaged kid, coming to New York and hanging with all the SNL people.

Ron Bennington: All that stuff was popping when you were just a kid, huh?

Joel Murray: I was like, in Catholic School. And when I was in high school, I went out one night with Belushi and my brothers and we ended up at this place at five in the morning, and there’s these girls in Catholic school uniforms basically blowing these Middle Eastern guys for coke at five in the morning. And I’m thinking that’s insane…and then, oh my God, they’re on their way to class. They weren’t out all night, these girls were getting up early, and doing this before they went to school to score some coke. And I was like, she’s my age. Ohhhhhh.

Ron Bennington: That’s amazing. And I thought it was cool that my brother had a motorcycle. That just got blown to shit. Well I want to just say one more time, Joel you were just amazing in this film man, seriously, and I wish you all the best with it.

Joel Murray: You have impeccable taste.

Ron Bennington: And Bobcat the turn that you’ve made, and you have made that turn towards being an artist. You had that opportunity, you could have been that crazy entertainer for all your life, but I hope that people will sit down and judge you by these films because they’re just terrific.

Bobcat Goldthwait: Well thanks man, that’s really kind. I’m really flattered, and it’s so nice to see you after all these years, but I’m really flattered that you liked the movies. Sometimes I feel like I’m kind of working in a vacuum.

Ron Bennington: They’re on demand, and Netflix for the other films. I’m telling you, he’s a very very fine filmmaker. Everybody put it together for Joel Murray and Bobcat Goldthwait.

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You can hear this interview in its entirety exclusively on SiriusXM satellite radio.  Not yet a subscriber?  Click on the logo for a free trial subscription.

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You can learn more about Ron Bennington’s two interview shows, Unmasked and Ron Bennington Interviews at RonBenningtonInterviews.com.

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