Andy Serkis Brings Back Gollum

Published by The Editor at December 16, 2012

Andy Serkis is best known for his motion capture film work. On screen he’s been transformed into, King Kong, Ceaser in Planet of the Apes, and of course, Gollum in the Lord of the Rings Trilogy . But he’s also done great work in smaller roles like Ian Brady in “Longford”, Ian Dury in “Sex Drugs and Rock and Roll”, and Martin Hannett in “24 Hour Party People.” He recently stopped by the SiriusXM studios to talk with Ron Bennington about his latest film, “The Hobbit”, where he reprises his popular role of Gollum.

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Andy Talks About Playing Rock Roles Ian Dury and Martin Hannett

Ron Bennington: Before we get into this little film called “The Hobbit” – (Andy laughs) – I want to talk to you about…first you did 2 of the great rock and roll parts I think, of all time. Playing Ian Dury and also when you played Martin Hannett in “24 Hour Party People”.

Andy Serkis: Very fortunate to play two of those guys. I mean they’re hugely hugely kind of formative for me, growing up. Particularly Ian Dury, I mean he was such a hero of mine. And Martin Hannett…just one of the greatest producers of all time.

Ron Bennington: Yeah. And just a great great movie. Ian Dury is one of those roles – I don’t think anybody could have played, but you. It couldn’t have been the easiest part to jump into, right?

Andy Serkis: I mean it’s really interesting because we worked with his family. Baxter, his son who…there’s a very famous album – you’ll know it – “New Boots and Panties!!”

Ron Bennington: Oh sure.

Andy Serkis: Ian’s album. And there’s a picture of a father and a son and that’s Baxter his son. And so we got to know those guys very very well. And they said…when we showed them…and I can be honest about what they said [here]…

Ron Bennington: Yeah.

Andy Serkis: They said…when we showed them the original script, they said – No, he was much more of a cunt then that. (laughs) So it was kind of no holds barred from there on in. And we just wanted to get warts and all on it. And make it real and feel… it’s about a father and growing up with someone who’s that creative, that kind of driven, but also loves his family and the tension in that. And it was a really cool thing to work on.

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Andy Talks About Playing Motion Capture Characters

Ron Bennington: And you get to do these giant projects and then do smaller projects. You seem to have like one of the most unique careers going on today.

Andy Serkis: I’ve always looked for kind of interesting ways into things and I like playing edgy characters. And characters that I would be hopeless to play – I mean I wouldn’t be cast as sort of a general…kind of leading man…sort of fare. It’s just not me. It’s just not what I’m interested in really. But the whole performance capture trajectory and going around that route and playing all of those characters like Gollum, Caesar in “Rise of the Planet of the Apes” and “King Kong” and so on. They’re all about character. So it’s not just about…people will say – well, why are you doing those things? Why are you…you just have to learn monkey movements or whatever – it’s just like kind of not really about any of that. It’s all about a different view of the human condition. And seeing the human condition from a very different perspective. I mean Gollum is an addict. He’s basically someone who is completely in the thrall of this tiny object that completely possesses him. And Kong is pretty much a lonely, psychotic hobo. And Caesar is this kind of gifted child who suddenly discovers that his parents aren’t really his parents. So although they sound and feel like they’re intangible because they’re fantasy characters, they’re actually just us.

Ron Bennington: So you have to find that one thing that click steps for you.

Andy Serkis: Yeah.

Ron Bennington: Because you don’t go in knowing that – oh, okay. I’m going to be playing an addict or I’m going to be playing a kid. You…as you’re researching this and you’re getting closer and closer to it.

Andy Serkis: Yeah, yeah. You’re building the character. And that’s why…I mean it’s interesting – people think if you’re using the technology like performance capture like it’s a genre of acting or a different type of acting. But it’s not. I mean the way I approached playing Ian Dury or Martin Hannett is exactly the same way that I would approach playing Gollum or King Kong. And obviously, they’re physical and you have to learn the behavior patterns of a silverback gorilla or when you’re working out how Gollum’s going to be. It’s like what is the essence of that character? What drives that character? And why does he sound like that? Why is his voice like that? Well, his voice is like that because he’s carrying an enormous amount of guilt and tension in his throat and he’s called Gollum because of the way he sounds. There are psychological reasons I suppose is what I’m saying. And emotional reasons for playing it.

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Why People Love Gollum

Ron Bennington: It always is emotion for you at first it seems – like you find that emotional reason and then you can build it from there. The strange thing about the Gollum character is…when I’m at “The Hobbit” the other night – the place explodes when the character comes on. Everyone now seems like they love this little addict. (Andy laughs) I don’t know whether they would like having one in their life, but people went crazy as soon as Gollum appeared.

Andy Serkis: I think, I mean he is a beautifully written character. And a beautifully observed character. And Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens wrote the script to “The Lord of the Rings”. I mean he’s in the books and Tolkien is very affectionate and has empathy for Gollum. I think that’s the thing. It puts you as an audience member in that wonderfully tricky position of – do I judge this character? How do I relate to him? Do I hate him? Is he evil? What is evil? He’s conflicted. And it throws a bomb into the audience’s lap. And I think that’s why people like him. Because he challenges them.

Ron Bennington: Well, also I don’t think…particularly when you play it as an addict – no one is lonelier than an addict. No one is as disconnected from everybody else. And it’s such a lonely lonely character – he never has anyone.

Andy Serkis: That’s right. That’s absolutely right. And he doesn’t have anyone, but himself and his other self. (laughs)

Ron Bennington: Right.

Andy Serkis: So that was something that we really kind of wanted to…which isn’t actually in “The Hobbit” books so much. That kind of schizophrenic personality was something that evolved. And the Smeagol / Gollum sort of side of his personalities was something that was really evolved in “The Lord of the Rings” trilogy with the writing. But we wanted to keep that in and make that part of his condition. So that when Bilbo meets him – he’s not just meeting one strange person, but kind of two.

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Andy Talks About Directing on the Hobbit and Other Projects

Ron Bennington: You’re also using this to direct too. You’re using everything that’s happened for you to get a chance to do stuff.

Andy Serkis: That’s absolutely right. In fact, even way back – as far as “Lord of the Rings”, I was starting write and make short films. And then I started to direct some video game projects after “King Kong”. And Peter knew that directing is where I’m heading in a sense. As well as along side the acting, but he thought this would be a great chance – so he asked me to be the second unit director on “The Hobbit”. And so we shot for 200 days.

Ron Bennington: What was that like for you?

Andy Serkis: It was amazing. I was an amazing experience. A film of this scale – it’s a very…it’s quite a considerable kind of chunk of the movie. And I got to shoot in amazing places and shoot amazing things with great actors. And yeah, it was a huge education – shooting at 48 frames a second, shooting 3-D…

Ron Bennington: All new technology.

Andy Serkis: All new technology. And we shot aerials and battle sequences.

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Andy Talks About the New Filming Technology Used in “The Hobbit”

Ron Bennington: Well people have been asking me since I saw it – like what it looks like? And I can’t really describe it since I’ve got nothing compare it too.

Andy Serkis: Well it’s interesting. When Pete’s been talking about it recently – he’s sort of…because people kind of go – what is this higher frame rate? I suppose it’s similar to going from vinyl to CD. And that reaction that people had when people went – well, a CD’s too clean. It’s clinical. There’s no warmth in the sound. It’s an aesthetic choice. And some people will absolutely love it and some people…perhaps the younger generation who play video games will love it.

Ron Bennington: That’s what I was thinking. I was thinking there will probably be a generational switch on that. The same way there was with CDs or now kids just listen to music on computers. So you’re not even getting CD quality anymore.

Andy Serkis: Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Ron Bennington: So for you, that part of it had to be pretty daunting – that not only you directing like that, but with new equipment.

Andy Serkis: Yeah. Certainly the 3-D for me – it was new. I mean 48 – you’re not that aware of as a sort of presence on set. It’s just sort of a higher frame rate. But certainly working with 3-D has actual implications on a day to day basis shooting. Well for instance, if you’re changing a lens on a camera – you’re not just changing one, you’re changing two lenses. And those lenses have to be calibrated. So every time as a director, you’re kind of going – well actually, we’ll change it. It’s like a 20 minute operation. Which if you add those up during the day, you’re taking chunks out of your shooting time. And then things for instance, like stunts in 3-D. The old fashioned way that you could cover a punch from behind by masking it – it doesn’t work because you can literally around. You can see the air around the actors. So you have to have full contact. So all these battle sequences are people literally clubbing each other. (laughs)

Ron Bennington: Yeah. Because the old stunts – all you had to do was turn off the sound to see how far away they are.

Andy Serkis: Yeah, exactly.

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Andy’s Next Projects and George Orwell’s “Animal Farm”

Ron Bennington: That’s bizarre. So all new problems as you’re doing this. Do you ever plan on directing some of your own features?

Andy Serkis: Absolutely. In fact, I’ve started…at the moment, where I’m at is I have a performance capture studio in London called “The Imaginarium” and we have a development arm, so we have a slate of films that we’re making. And the first thing that we’re making which I’m going to be shooting in the back end of next year is “Animal Farm” – George Orwell’s “Animal Farm”.

Ron Bennington: Wow. So again, you’re going after one of these beloved things. Everything that you’re doing – “King Kong”, “Lord of the Rings” has people that love the original piece of work so much. (Andy laughs)

Andy Serkis: Yeah. I mean it’s an amazing book. I mean I remember – you must have read it as a child.

Ron Bennington: Sure. Yeah.

Andy Serkis: It’s just always stuck with me and something I’ve always wanted to do. It’s such a powerful allegory.

Ron Bennington: Yeah. And it is like your first chance when you’re a kid to go – wait, this is just…and feel like you’re discovering that. But it’s still like one of those stories that is just told perfectly. It’s a heartbreaking story for kids to read.

Andy Serkis: Yeah, it is. But it also has that wonderful kind of shroud of being…it’s called “George Orwell’s Fairy Tale – Animal Farm”. And it is a fairy tale. And yet, it’s so moving. And you’re so in it with those characters. It’s also a political allegory. And the challenge is for us, is if George Orwell was writing “Animal Farm” for now. What would he be writing about? So that’s…and to keep it’s innocence – because that was the thing. It kind of has an innocence about it, that book.

Ron Bennington: Sure.

Andy Serkis: But yet, there’s a real darkness that I’m delighted with.

Ron Bennington: “The Hobbit” is out next week and of course, this is the most talked about film of the season. Andy, thank you so much for being here. And I’m so glad to see you doing the kind of stuff you do, but keep doing these other kind acting roles.mm Because I think when you grab some of these smaller roles, you’re just amazing too.

Andy Serkis: Well thanks, man.

Ron Bennington: Thanks and I’ll see you next time coming through.

Andy Serkis: Cool. Thank you.

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[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViUNm30ADEA]

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