William H. Macy: Ready for More Shameless
Actor William H. Macy has been making great films for his entire career. We have known and loved him from his great performances in independent films like “Fargo”, “Magnolia”, and “Boogie Nights”. Now, of course, we know him as the guy you love to hate and love again– Frank Gallagher on Showtime’s hit series “Shameless”. He stopped by the SiriusXM studios this week to sit down with Ron Bennington and talk about the upcoming third season of Shameless. Excerpts from the interview appear below.
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Ron Bennington: Frank Gallagher probably starts off this season lower than he’s ever been?
William H. Macy: Probably. Probably. And season 1, I woke up in Canada and didn’t know how I got there. Now it’s Juarez and it’s a little worse. And he looks worse for wear, I can say.
Ron Bennington: Oh my God, does he. This thing starts off and you’re like – I don’t know how much longer Frank is going to live. He’s at that point.
William H. Macy: Interesting, you should say that. We deal with that this season.
Ron Bennington: Do you really feel like…because in real life, this guy would have pushed it as far as he possibly can.
William H. Macy: Well, no. There’s death. We haven’t done that yet. It brings up a good point. I’m playing an addicted drinking alcoholic. Functioning, but still pretty abusive of himself. On one hand, it’s disingenuous to say that’s not funny. (laughs) Because drunks are really funny sometimes. But, we’ve got to tell the truth about it. So there’s a balance going on there.
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William H. Macy Talks About Drug Use and Addiction on Shameless
Ron Bennington: Well, you know what’s interesting too about this show – it’s the first generation that we have, people now, in their 50s, 60s and even 70s who go – hey, what’s this Ecstasy thing about? And then trying it. Like your grandfather, it never would have occurred to him to try what ever new drug was around.
William H. Macy: I know.
Ron Bennington: But there’s a generation of people who grew up in the 60s and 70s who have no fear of the new designer drug.
William H. Macy: Well, I think what they did is they got loaded for a long time. Then they got married and had babies. They raised the babies. The babies are gone and they’re back. (laughs)
Ron Bennington: They are back in a big big way.
William H. Macy: They’re back!! And ready.
Ron Bennington: But the addiction thing, of course, takes it to that next level. Because you get to go so far – no matter who you are. You get, I think – X amount of drinks, X amount of pills before the house of cards just starts to go.
William H. Macy: Some people are lucky. They can sort of modulate it and stay pleasant, but other people aren’t.
Ron Bennington: And if you do have the addictive personality, you can’t go from that to figuring out a balance.
William H. Macy: No.
Ron Bennington: You’re in or out. And the amazing thing I think about “Shameless” is it shows how many people are affected by Frank. No matter what they do – there’s not just his family, but all the people around him.
William H. Macy: I’ve got to say – it’s amazing and perhaps sometimes a little alarming, how many people say to me – that’s my family.
Ron Bennington: Right.
William H. Macy: That’s the way I grew up. It is a very common story to have an addictive parent your whole life.
Ron Bennington: Right. And everybody else scrambling to…
William H. Macy: Sure. It’s over-powering.
Ron Bennington: …clean it up. And nobody’s ever going to be on the same page because you’ll be like – Frank’s doing good now. But not everyone’s going to buy into that. Not everybody’s going to forgive at the same time.
William H. Macy: Well hopefully we’re going to get 8 seasons out of this, so we’ve got to keep stirring the pot. (laughs)
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William H. Macy Talks About Family Values on Shameless
Ron Bennington: Right. But the family…it is a family show because these people do gain strength from each other.
William H. Macy: I think the reason it works is that at it’s core – it’s a show about family. That blood tie. You can do a lot to the Gallaghers. You can put them in jail. You can fire them. You can burn down the house. You can do all of that and it’s serious, but nothing compares to trying to break up the family. Which in fact, we toy with in this third season. And that’s when you see the strength of them. The dedication they have to each other. And that speaks to me. I’ve got 2 daughters and we’re into that stage where we’re talking about what it means to be a family. They’re very close in age and it’s World War 3 at my house sometimes.
Ron Bennington: And sometimes it seems like that’s where less money helps strengthen a family. It’s sometimes like money can pull people apart or get people going because they have more and more options and we’re going to travel and go in different directions. But if you look, even around the world where there’s extreme poverty – there’s also an extreme family bond because you need that for survival.
William H. Macy: Yeah. That’s possibly true. I think we would have to agree – I’ve been rich. I’ve been poor. It’s better to be rich. (laughs)
Ron Bennington: Oh it’s definitely better to be rich. There’s no doubt about it.
William H. Macy: I think that what makes the show work is that these people are sorely tested. And the one thing that is unshakable is their bond to each other. And I think that’s what you’re getting at. And you’re right – that can happen anywhere. And it can also not happen anywhere. And I also had the feeling that the kids – there’s some young kids in the Gallagher family. And I think they might grow up okay. Because the one they need – the one thing you cannot do without, they’re getting – which is love and support. It’s coming from a weird angle and they’ve got an addicted father who’s a danger to them, but they might make it because of their siblings.
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William H. Macy Talks About Television Being More Creative Than Film Now
Ron Bennington: Well, it’s a great show when you have people wanting to talk about it. And I read this thing – I was talking about it the other day, where someone said we’ve kind of become more of TV culture where we used to be a movie culture. We used to discuss movies and then just kind of watch TV shows, they would be on. But now people, when you got to a party, people will discuss TV shows in the way we use to talk about film.
William H. Macy: And I don’t think it’s a bad thing. And I think all kudos to the audience because they follow the good work. In my opinion, we are in another golden age of television. There’s so much great stuff on now. And I feel like the cutting edge stuff is on television. And a lot of the most talented people in the business are gravitating towards TV because that’s where the exciting work can get done.
Ron Bennington: Why do you think that is though? I mean you’ve been doing this long enough that you saw different eras take place.
William H. Macy: The demographic has changed. People stay at home a bit more. They watch their TV a lot. TVs have gotten really good with surround sound. It’s like being in a theater. So that’s where the money went. And the proliferation of the amount of shows we need at the various networks. So, they need content out there and that opens it up. So, a TV show doesn’t have to appeal to everyone. It can appeal to a smaller audience. “Shameless” isn’t for everyone. One of my family make a point of coming to me and telling me they don’t like it. (laughs)
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William H. Macy Talks About Sex and Violence in Our Culture
Ron Bennington: Yeah. I can’t watch that. But Showtime is like a great example of that where they really run a couple of different seasons of different types of shows. And just like when you get past that Homeland thing of like – alright, that’s enough extreme kind of tension and violence, you’re into this other season which is bringing either sexuality or adult issues. It’s really really amazing. It’s stuff like we’ve never had before.
William H. Macy: I think it’s good for us. I went to the…they sort of premiered the first 3 episodes of “Girls” at an HBO party last night. And there’s a lot of graphic sex in that. And like our show, it’s dealt with in a very matter-of-fact way. It’s given import, but not the crazy import of a romantic comedy. In other words, everything. These kids have sex and some of it’s good and some of it’s bad and some of it’s honest and some of it isn’t. But it’s sort of an accurate reflection of what’s going on. And I think we in this country are really uptight about sex. This is healthy that there’s…I’ve got to tell you – it’s not fun to do for me as an actor. And I was talking to some of the cast of “Girls”. It’s not fun. I mean the audience has a tendency to want to say – well, you must like taking your clothes off. Noooo.
Ron Bennington: It’s never easy.
William H. Macy: No. You take your pants down in front of a bunch of teamsters. (laughs) It’s not what you would call “a good day”.
Ron Bennington: And it’s still strange that we are more comfortable watching extreme violence with our children to this day than we are with…
William H. Macy: Oh it’s disgusting. It’s disgusting. Okay. I did this film called The Sessions. It makes you proud to be a human being. It’s such a feel good movie. And it’s based on a true story. And it’s honest. And I play a priest, okay? And it got an R-rating. Because Helen Hunt doesn’t have her clothes on in a lot of it. And who got an Oscar nomination this morning? Thank you ma’am. And then I went to see Batman and apparently kids can see that, but they can’t see “The Sessions”. And I have 2 daughters and I would like to say – that’s really perverted. I don’t like that. Violence is bad. Sex is pretty good. Even bad sex is pretty good, let’s be honest. But violence is bad. And I’m done. I’m done. I don’t want to see it and I’m done with the billboards of some beautiful movie star holding a gun in my face.
Ron Bennington: Well because there’s no kind of repercussions to that kind of violence.
William H. Macy: Yes. It’s all bullshit.
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William H. Macy Talks About Working on “Shameless”: Scripts and The Cast
Ron Bennington: Do you guys know where you’re going with Shameless? Do you know? Is there a story arc that goes on for the 8 seasons you’re hoping for?
William H. Macy: They are…that’s a big question to answer when you’re on a series. And they keep us vaguely informed of where it might go. For two reasons. One – it’s not good. It’s not information we need, truthfully. And secondly, they don’t know. (laughs) John Wells runs this thing wonderfully well. The scripts come in on time. We have a week to prepare. But it is a joy to not know where it’s going. I mean as an audience member – you watch some of the stuff that happens on “Shameless” and you go – oh my God. Well, when we read it, we go – oh my God. It’s lovely not knowing where it’s going.
Ron Bennington: And so many characters. And the casting has just been amazing.
William H. Macy: Stunning.
Ron Bennington: I can’t believe how good the kids are.
William H. Macy: I know. John Levey did the casting on this thing. And they’re all really wonderful. The kids are so young. Well, Joan’s (Cusack) a grown up, but there weren’t many of us on the set.
Ron Bennington: And that thing came together pretty quick as far as feeling like we’ve got a real cast here? I mean everybody got on board pretty quickly with it?
William H. Macy: Mark Mylod who directed the British version of this. He directed the pilot. He directed our pilot too. And he is the driving spirit behind the show. And so, he did some clever things. He…I don’t know how much time we have…okay, when we got there for rehearsals – there’s a kitchen, the Gallagher kitchen on our set – there was no craft services. We used the kitchen. There was a big sign that said – clean up after yourselves. And indeed, nobody cleaned up after us. And you got yelled for not cleaning up after yourself. And then Marks said – okay, that’s it for rehearsal today. We’ve gotten tickets for you to go to some batting cages and miniature golf. So, I’ve been doing this a long time. And I didn’t know Mark. This is a brand new show and I’m thinking – oh lord, save me. What? Are we suppose to go do an improv at the putting golf course? Oh God, count me out. So we got there and I was in a bad mood. And the young girl who plays Debbie (Emma Kenney) – and this is 3 years ago – I’m behind her (laughs) and she picks up the club and she knocks the ball off. Go again. She does it again. Go again. No, you can do it. She does it about 17 times. I’m standing behind her. Finally, I pushed her off the thing and I said – you lose your turn. I played through. (laughs) And we got to the batting cages and I started heckling the other guys saying – you pussies. And it dawned on me that we were doing the show. And it sort of sorted itself out. Our personalities rose to the surface because we had these activities to do and we all recognized each other. And a lot of stuff happened because we did that. Mark Mylod, ladies and gentlemen. He outsmarted me.
Ron Bennington: And that’s from also putting together people that are just perfect to play each part. Just ready to go with it.
William H. Macy: It really goes back to the guys at the top. John and Mark were very careful about the casting and very humane I must say too. I was in on some of the later casting. And John is such a gentleman with the actors. It’s the worst part of my business – that audition.
Ron Bennington: Oh terrible.
William H. Macy: Terrible. Never gets good – will always be bad. I don’t know how to replace it. And he is so kind to the actors and respectful.
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William H. Macy Talks About How Shameless is Shot
Ron Bennington: And as an actor – it’s easier to work faster. The energy is there to work faster.
William H. Macy: It is. It is both a joy and a burden. You better have your shit in one sock as they say – (laughs) when you get to the set. I mean there’s no time to learn it. We don’t have sides. You know “sides”? The little…they shrink the script down to a little pocket-sized thing – a cheat sheet as it were. We don’t have them on our set. John said – if you need to carry the script – the script which is huge. You can’t move. Then carry the script, but let’s not have sides. So, the not so subtle message is learn the lines.
Ron Bennington: It’s game time.
William H. Macy: And they do, boy. Yeah. We have guest stars come in that look like a bomb went off in their face. (laughs) Because the other thing about the way we shoot – the second show, I go to the guy directing and said – when are you going to get that shot? You know, my moment in the scene – when are you going to get that? And he said – oh, dude – second shot of the day. You’ve been finished since 11 o’clock this morning. Because you never know when your close-up is. They shoot in such a bizarre way. There’s always 2 cameras and they’re zipping around on these little stools. And it’s handheld and rough. You don’t know when your close-up is coming. You’re on all the time. You better have your poop together.
Ron Bennington: Yeah. Every year the cameras get smaller and it’s easier to shoot. You go back and look at the first golden age of TV and there’s just those giant boxes.
William H. Macy: Huge. The size of a Buick. Yeah, they basically pointed them and acted in front of them. Now, I opened a cabinet and there’s a camera in there – one of the little DSLRs, but they use these Mark 7s or whatever they are. I opened the cabinet in the middle of a scene and I thought – aha, somebody left a camera – oops. (laughs)
Ron Bennington: It’s Sunday night. “Shameless” on Showtime. So great to see you in here again. And I’ll look forward to seeing you next time. Take care of yourself.
William H. Macy: You betcha.
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXd92vmkBw]======================================================
Shameless airs at 9pm (eastern time) on Sunday nights on Showtime. Get more info at showtime.com.
You can hear this interview in its entirety exclusively on SiriusXM satellite radio. Not yet a subscriber? Click here for a free trial subscription.
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You can learn more about Ron Bennington’s two interview shows, Unmasked and Ron Bennington Interviews atRonBenningtonInterviews.com.
