Armond White on Film, Art and Roger Ebert

Controversial film critic Armond White stopped by the Ron and Fez show and talked with Ron Bennington about his new job as editor-in-chief of City Arts magazine, and of course, about film.  Armond is known to some as the critic who kept Toy Story 3 from getting a 100% rating on Rotten Tomatoes.  He’s also known for his strong criticism of other members of his profession.  Below are some brief excerpts from the interview.

Ron Bennington: You’re doing an arts magazine now, and what shocked me is, you are the editor in chief of the magazine. Most people know you as a film critic. How do you make that leap?

Armond White: I think its part of what I’ve always been doing. I used to be an Arts Editor– there was a paper in New York in the 80s and 90’s called the City Sun which was a black owned paper out of Brooklyn Heights that folded in 96. So I’ve worn an arts editor cap before now. But I’m not giving up film criticism. I love it too much.

Ron Bennington: Another thing that I liked right away, is I read a little article about Sirius XM doing a Nirvana thing, Jon Stewart hosted, but you’re against that kind of retrospective?

Armond White: Not so much against but wanting to bring…as the cover of the first issue that I edited says, the headline is Bringing Thinking Back. And that’s’ really all I ever want people to do. I want them to think about what’s put in front of them in the culture rather than just accepting it buying tickets and applauding like sheep, well applauding like performing seals. I want people to think about it first.

Ron Bennington: So let’s go to the Jon Stewart bringing the guys back from Nirvana. What would be the thing that we need to think about that?

Armond White: The fact that Jon Stewart doesn’t do anything without an agenda. He’s not an a-political person. Everything he does has an ideology behind it and I think that’s what people should think about it. It’s probably a little dangerous if people think that Jon Stewart is simply a Nirvana fan and he wants to promote Nirvana, because he doesn’t simply do anything and he doesn’t do anything without a motive behind it. And I want people to think about that.

Ron Bennington: Do you see anybody as being impartial? I mean it’s a difficult thing, and I don’t know if I want my artists to be impartial. I want my artists to take a stand.

Armond White: Of course and I think people do too. A lot of times in show business, people pretend not to have a point of view or they pretend to be impartial. They pretend to be fair, and balanced. But as I was taught in journalism school, and eventually found out in life that there is no such thing as objectivity. Everybody has a point of view whether or not they recognize it. One of the more important and difficult things in life is coming to understand your thoughts and feelings in life, and how those feelings and thoughts relate to the rest of the world.

Ron Bennington: As editor of the new City Arts magazine, this is going to be shaped by your view, your personality, so if you could give us a short couple of lines of where you hope to be taking the magazine.

Armond White: City Arts originated as a paper devoted to the fine arts scene, painting sculpture, classical music, ballet. A vote of confidence from the publisher, Kate Walsh and Tom Allen, they wanted me to do what I do which is to bring popular art into the mix. I like opera, I like symphonies, I like theater, I also love pop music, I love music, I like music videos, I love some games in fact. I like the mix of things. I like the mix of what they call the high arts and the low arts. I think they do come together in the way their made these days. And I hope they’re combined to bring the reader a richer cultural experience. Also bring in to that mix some real thinking which I guess probably also means some political thought too.

Ron Bennington: You’re kind of considered controversial in the film world. A lot of people think that you’re a contrarian; that you love to go opposite direction that the other critics go.

Armond White: They’ve really got that twisted. They ought to think why is it that most other critics – not all critics but most other critics all think alike? Hello? Wake up! Wake up! Wake up! Everybody doesn’t feel alike about everything? You can only speak for yourself, you can only walk in your own shoes. That’s what I’m trying to do. I’m not being contrary, I’m trying to be myself, understand myself. You can only respond to a work of art as yourself.

Ron Bennington: Do you show up for every movie with a clean slate? Or do you hold what you think of the actor or the directors against them from previous works.

Armond White: Not against them but I don’t come as a clean slate. I have a history, I have an education, I bring that with me. Never a clean slate. All I want is what Orson Wells once famously said, I just want to be astounded. And that’s what I come in with. I sit in front of a movie screen and I’m waiting to be astounded no matter what the movie is. And if you don’t astound me, get out of my face.

Ron Bennington: One of the films that is being highly praised, is Moneyball. If you go by the Rotten Tomatoes its 90%+ of the critics out there say this is a fine film.

Armond White: There’s the sheep mentality again. In my review I equate Moneyball with The Social Network. I think they both are about romanticizing power, and both are in some ways metaphors for film makers. In both cases, the film makers are trying to find metaphors for what they do. They found it in Mark Zuckerberg, they found it in Billy Bean of the Oakland As. And they try to romanticize and sentimentalize what they do as film makers. But ironically there is a big difference especially in the case of Moneyball. In Moneyball seems to pretend that the way to revolutionize baseball is by doing it without a lot of money but the film was made by multi millionaires full of big name costly talent and you gotta thing, what exactly are they saying to us? They don’t believe in hiring underdog players or makers. The people who made it are big shots and they only work with big shots so I think they kind of undercut the message of the film which I find specious anyway. I’m not a sports guy but from what I understand the Oakland As didn’t do that good.

Ron Bennington: Have you seen what Roger Ebert is doing now with the PBS Show He’s got a couple of critics in there, but now it seems that he’s just showing stuff that’s been in the can for thirty years, that he and Siskel have done?

Armond White: Yea, ain’t it pathetic? Ebert doesn’t care about film, Ebert cares about Ebert’s career, that’s what he’s always been about. You know sometimes you walk down the street in Manhattan and you might see a person do a strange thing in front of you and you wonder what’s wrong with them and then as you continue to walk and continue to watch that person they will eventually reveal whether or not they are an asshole. In the fullness of Roger Ebert’s career, he will eventually reveal his full ass-holishness which is what happened here, with his latest incarnation of At the Movies, or whatever its called. He brought in two young people to review movies as if he cared about young people…as if he cared about criticism…and eventually it turned into a show about Roger Ebert. That’s who the man really is– he’s really a careerist. He can’t be taken seriously as a film critic.

Ron Bennington: Have you felt like that for a long time?

Armond White: I didn’t believe it when I was a teenager and first became aware of Roger Ebert. I just thought he was a trustworthy journalist like so many others, but in the fullness of time, as we saw him get richer and more popular, you could see that he didn’t care about criticism. He simply wanted to be a celebrity…wanted to be a big shot..he wanted to be a millionaire. And he certainly achieved that and his egotism is what the new tv show is about. Damn PBS for putting that on with even a smidgen of the public’s money.

Ron Bennington: City Arts, its online and just like the old days, you can pick up the newspaper, you can read it. Armond White is the editor, and always an interesting guy.

Armond White: Thank you Ron I’m so gratified that you picked it up, it means a lot.

 

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You can hear the interview in its entirety on Sirius XM’s Stars Too and Virus Channels.  Not yet a subscriber? Get a free trial here!