Don Cheadle: Showtime’s Newest Bad Boy

Don Cheadle is without a doubt, one of our great film actors.  He’s appeared in many successful blockbusters like “Iron Man 2”, The “Oceans” series of films and “Volcano” and he was terrific in each of those films, but more importantly, he has given incredible performances in a long list smaller but outstanding films, like “Devil in a Blue Dress”, “Hotel Rwanda”, “Boogie Nights”, “The Guard”, “Out of Sight” and so many more.  This week he came by the SiriusXM studios to talk with Ron Bennington about his new Showtime Series, “House of Lies” which airs Sunday Nights.  Excerpts from that interview appear below.

Ron Bennington: The Sunday night Showtime Bad Boys List– and you’re now anchoring– House of Lies. I hear it already got picked up for another season.

Don Cheadle: Yea we got picked up for our second season, they announced it a couple of weeks ago, we’re very fortunate and happy about that.

Ron Bennington: Well it’s such a really cool show. Now the pilot was almost shocking. I was like…I don’t know if I can stay with this guy, ‘cause it’s so hardcore. You finally I think– as the show goes along– see what is good in him, I think. The way he treats his son is phenomenal.

Don Cheadle: Yeah, I mean you know that there’s a heart beating underneath all that calloused over scar tissue. But yeah, he’s in a business where they’re whole job is to try to be invaluable and stay involved however they can.

Ron Bennington: It’s very much about the hustle, and it’s really just high technology carny work. But you look at– why doesn’t he change– he’s really good at it. He’s really good at his job.

Don Cheadle: Yeah, and that’s the other thing. He’s got sort of this bifurcated existence, where in his job he’s very good and can control it and knows everything and can pull every trick, and at home he has no control and can’t do anything. He’s being batted around by a ten year old kid.

Ron Bennington: But what I love about it is, he doesn’t force anything on the kid. When it really comes down to parenthood– all you can really do is put that person’s wants and needs above yours.

Don Cheadle: Yeah, support them and try to see what they are. And I like…somebody was talking about the word education and how we have such a backwards concept of what it is. And the real root word of that is to educe, which means to pull out of, not to stuff into. And that’s what it really should be. Who are you, and let me try to help support who you are as opposed to try to make you in my image.

Ron Bennington: And the really great thing about little kids, is they are so less fucked up than adults, and then we go oh jesus let me help you. Let me say this is for defensive…but really it’s just going to make it a tighter and tighter box. And really, he doesn’t do that with the kid. He keeps him wide open.

Don Cheadle: I think it’s also a tribute to his father who Glynn Turman plays in the show. And I think if he wasn’t there as a ballast, I wonder what would happen. But he’s there as a counsel saying, look, leave him alone, let him do what he needs to do. I think Marty has no idea. There’s one episode where his son comes to him and says, “Dad what do you do if you like a boy and a girl?” And he looks at his dad and he looks at his son and says…”I …I don’t know.” So he’s trying, he’s trying.

Ron Bennington: The acting on the show is great, and there’s always a complete amount of tension. I mean there’s never a time where he gets to just chill for a while.

Don Cheadle: It’s kind of high energy and I like the fact that it’s a half hour and it’s sort of just rapid fire and it doesn’t stop from beginning to end. One of the biggest comments that we keep getting is “that’s it? That’s it a half hour?” I’d rather leave people wanting more than going, okay I’m over it.

Ron Bennington: Well the funny thing is that in that half hour, there’s always a new location, about eight new characters, a completely new business and then the personal lives of course. But everything does get done that quickly.

Don Cheadle: We get it in but it is whirlwind. It does happen very fast. It’s like a blitzkrieg on business.

Ron Bennington: How much time a year do you spend on this show now.

Don Cheadle: We film the show in three months, actually. We’re on probably a tighter show than is recommended. We shoot those episodes in five days– and it should be six or seven. It’s tight. You have to move fast. Nobody can get sick, nobody can go down. Everybody has to stay healthy for three months. But we got it in.

Ron Bennington: This leaves you nine months a year to do films if you find the right film that you want to do.

Don Cheadle: Or just work on my handicap and golf and get my game down.

Ron Bennington: Really can you do that though? Or do you really think– what’s the next big…

Don Cheadle: …no…I’m also producing shows right now. I have a couple of things that are going and my company’s very active. And writing itself is time consumptive. But it’s good because I can handle it a little more. My kids are 17 and 14. My daughter’s diving now so I don’t have to shuttle all the time. And that’s a good thing and a bad thing, you know, but I have a little more time to myself than I did before.

Ron Bennington: You’ve always picked so many cool projects. Everyone in radio loves the Petey Greene story.

Don Cheadle: Oh, thank you, that’s one of my favorites.

Ron Bennington: One of my favorites too. And I worked in radio in Washington, and he’s still, to this day, a legend there. And you just hear stories and they’re just phenomenal. I mean it was years before that kind of radio took place.

Don Cheadle: Oh it’s unbelievable. I remember one of the earliest things– Howard Stern doing his show in black face. Now you couldn’t do that today. You couldn’t get away with it. The things he was getting away with in the 60’s– you couldn’t do it right now. So it’s amazing that he was such a pioneer, and the doors that he broke open. Robin Quivers was on his show. They were doing their thing early. And he says, I got it all from Petey Greene.

Ron Bennington: And people think of DC as just the Federal stuff but it’s such an urban city on the side of that, so there’s so much street life there. And to bring a street guy onto the radio had never happened before.

Don Cheadle: It was a huge gamble and it payed off huge. Like I said, he pioneered doing things that people are still doing and can’t do yet and it’s great that you have a touchstone for that. Check out this documentary on him and the things that he’s saying and doing, you can’t believe.

Ron Bennington: You’ve done that so much with your career too, of picking cool projects. I remember so much seeing  Devil in the Blue Dress and just going– who’s this dude? What the fuck is going on right now? Because that role just exploded on the screen.

Don Cheadle: Yeah, that was another role of a lifetime. I was very glad to get that one. And that was such an interesting story because Carl Franklin, who directed that, I had done his AFI project– his thesis project when he graduated from AFI in L.A. And I couldn’t get an audition because he had in his head that I was still that 19 year old kid. And everybody I knew in the city had gone in to audition for that role. And my agent was saying, “you’ve got to go in” and I said I know the dude, he won’t see me. And I was at a doctor’s office and we walked in, and the waiting room was filled to capacity. And as soon as he walked in, the receptionist came out and she said “this room is too crowded, you two go in that room over there,” and pointed at Carl and I and we had a conversation. Next thing you knew I came and auditioned and I got the part.

Ron Bennington: It was amazing man, to be menacing and funny at the same time– only a few people have ever pulled that off.

Don Cheadle: Well look, the role was tailor-made for that. I mean he comes in, and he rescues the guy in the third act. I was really fortunate to get that made. My career did kind of take off after that.

Ron Bennington: It was phenomenal. And from what I understand we’re still thinking about the Miles movie right?

Don Cheadle: Oh, never not thinking about it.

Ron Bennington: To live in this country and know what Miles Davis has meant to music and even have this a struggle to get made is phenomenal to me.

Don Cheadle: Well the movie business has seriously changed so much in the last several years. The world changed. And you know movies were already leaning toward being a lot more corporate and this is just a piece of the portfolio. So it’s harder and harder for the studios to try and make films that don’t hit the broadest audience conceivable. That’s why you see sequels and green screen and these tent pole summer movies that they’re going to spend all their money on. And these smaller movies kind of go by the wayside. And a lot of the venture capitalist money and hedge funds that were paying for all these smaller movies kind of dried up and people are circling the wagons. So it’s a hustle to get these things made. Now conversely, when you do get these movies made, and everybody’s there, it’s a great experience because everybody feels like they’re in the bunker and making this thing together. And we’re going to get the movie off, I’m confident that it’s going to happen.

Ron Bennington: Now everything’s ready to go as soon as somebody signs off on it?

Don Cheadle: Look, we’ve got a couple of offers now, but we’re just playing the dance of trying to get the budget that we have to fit the movie that we still want to make. Cause we can’t make it for just anything. We do have a number that we need to hit. But look, it’s rare to get a real offer so we’re trying to make it work. So we’re gonna fit it in, hopefully we’ll be doing it in 2013.

Ron Bennington: Is it an arc of a lifetime script?

Don Cheadle: No, it’s not a biopic , it’s not a cradle to grave kind of movie. It takes place over a three days of his life at a period of time when he wasn’t actually making music.

Ron Bennington: But this is the guy who basically changed music in America, over and…

Don Cheadle: Five times.

Ron Bennington: Easily. Every time they turned around a new album came out. And there were so many people after the fact that kind of looked at his career– you know people in pop– like Bowie that would go “I don’t have to be the same guy every time I come out.”

Don Cheadle: Reinvent yourself every time. And that’s what interesting about the take we’re taking on the film. You know he was an artist. People would say Jazz musician and he would immediately shut them down and say, I’m not a Jazz musician, I play social music. I’m an artist. And he really was the canvas that he painted on. He changed himself five or six time and people would say he’s a sellout. But that’s not being a sellout. Staying in your sweet spot and trying to wring that out for all it’s worth– that’s kind of where most artists are. They never leave their comfort zone. As soon as he felt comfortable he was on to the next thing.

Ron Bennington: Yea he was done with it. And even his visual arts…and the way he dressed and carried himself and talked about things. Any time you can read, or listen to an interview with him, you’re like, what the hell level was he on?

Don Cheadle: He was really thinking in different ways. And you hear it in his music. You listen to Bitches Brew or any of those albums, Circle in the Round. But he’s just got musicians and they’re searching. I mean, who shows you the search? People figure it out and then show you the polished product. He was like, no, I’m going to take you into the process. I’m going to show you how we stab around and kind of don’t know…and oh, we find three minutes of brilliance and then it falls apart again. And then oh oh there’s another sixty seconds that works. And then this last few minutes is kind of shit, just trying to figure it out. Who does that? Nobody does that. He’s like– I’m going to show you how we work.

Ron Bennington: You’re right it never happens on stage. And here’s the other thing too about Miles. I don’t think there’s any other music that goes directly to the subconscious. Like I’ll put that on when I need a mood change and it’s like acupuncture.

Don Cheadle: I think it’s because it’s an experiential thing that happens. You are in the forest with them, going, okay I’m lost, and they’re going we’re lost too, let’s just keep walking until we find a clearing.

Ron Bennington: So that’s the thing about your career– you don’t know when some of these things…I mean you’ve done Hotel Rwanda, which is just unlike most films you’ll ever get the chance to see. Was that another one that was tough to get the money for that?

Don Cheadle: Well it was funny, I met Terry George who directed that, in L.A. and he’d been trying to get the movie made for several years. And he said Don, I’m going to be honest with you. I’m going to get this movie made however I need to get it made. They’re telling me if I can get Will Smith, if I can get Cuba Gooding Jr, they’ll make the movie and I’m letting you know, if I can get one of those guys tomorrow, I’m going make it with them. I’m going to try to make it with you but if one of them puts their hand up in the air I’m going to do it with them. And I said, Terry, you absolutely have to do it with one of them if they say they’ll do it because this story is incredible and I think it’s something the world needs to know. So, I’ll produce. Want me to call Will? I know him? And I really meant that because sometimes the piece is bigger than you. And luckily it came my way and we were able to do it. But yeah, the first day on the set, when we were in South Africa I got a call from my agent, and he said, look, there’s no money in escrow for this movie. So if you want to come home you can come home, but right now you’re down there working for free. And I’m like, yeah, I’m going to fly back 32,000 miles. No I’m going to stay here and gut it out. And our producer Alex Ho, started writing personal checks to keep the movie afloat until all the money started flowing in. But that’s how it is on those smaller movies. It’s a grind. And they always turn out to be something that you’re really proud of and protective of.

Ron Bennington: Yeah…

Don Cheadle: Like The Guard. Similar situation. We really hustled to try to get that movie together and I love that movie and I’m really proud of that film. And those are the movies that you’re really in it for. The studio ones will come. I’m in the Iron Man, that’s fine. I did the Oceans, those are great. That’s an annuity, I can put my kids through school. But the ones that are really special, and the ones that you keep near to your heart are those small ones that were a hustle to get made.

Ron Bennington: And those are the ones that stick with people after they see them. The roller coaster movies– you go to them and you forget them by the time you get back to the car. They’re already gone.

Don Cheadle: And that’s fine. It’s cotton candy and it’s for entertainment and you have this big cathartic moment with the crowd, and go, awwwwww, ooooh. I don’t hate on those movies, I think they have their place and they’re great. It’s just unfortunate that the other ones that we’re talking about– those really special ones that really do stay with you– the ones that you really have discussions and debates, arguments. Crash, people arguing all over the country about what that movie was and what that meant. People hated that movie and people loved that movie, and that’s when it’s great. You want to be able to have discourse.

Ron Bennington: That movie, even a couple of times when I”m watching it, I turned on it, back and forth. But that goes back to Miles– do you want the audience involved at all. And as an audience member, do you want to be involved in the art?

Don Cheadle: And I think, look, life has gotten exponentially harder for a lot of people. And it make sense that on a Friday night, people don’t necessarily want to go and spend– what it is now, $15, and if you want anything at the concession stand, add another $30, and you have to park and if you have a babysitter, now its $120 to go to a movie. Do I want to go to the movie and then work? Some people are like no. I want to go to the movie and turn my brain off, and just see some pretty pictures, and watch the actors walk around and look pretty and say funny shit to each other, and then I want to walk out and go, ahh I didn’t think about my life for two and a half hours– that was great. And I’m all good with that. I think movies’ primary job is to entertain. Some people though, want to go and they’re like, okay I want to think about Rwanda, I want to think about the vicissitudes of racism and how that affects us, I want to think about these bigger ideas, and that’s where those smaller, important, interesting movies come in. Where you can be nuanced. Where you can play with it a little bit.

Ron Bennington: And the weird thing is, you go in there knowing nothing about Rwanda, and in no time at all you’re like, well that’s not so different from my life. That’s not so different from the way I handle things.

Don Cheadle: This is a guy who is basically trying to protect his family. He doesn’t want the hero– he’s not trying to be. And when you talk to Paul [Rusesabagina], it’s great cause Paul was down there when we were filming the movie. And he was like, I was just trying to live. I was just trying to not get killed. And it became a bigger thing that was thrust upon me.

Ron Bennington: The show, of course, is 10:00 on Showtime. It’s amazing too, you’re not taking the heat from the kind of groups that worry about what’s on tv.

Don Cheadle: If you turn on Showtime you gotta expect everything you see on our show. It’s not trying to play nice with anybody. Everybody gets skewered. So it’s that kind of a show but it’s funny and as you said there’s a heartbeat. These people are actually human beings and this happens to be their hustle. And their hustle happens to be something that…we’re more fish on a shark.

Ron Bennington: And like any great show you turn it on to see the star, Don Cheadle, but now after this point, we’re getting to know the rest of the folks and there’s great timing that just moves around between all these guys. The cast is terrific.

Don Cheadle: We have so much fun. We improv a lot. And everybody is from theater so we’re used to that live environment.

Ron Bennington: Thanks so much, it’s great to have you in here, and we’ll see you again next time through.

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This interview can be heard in its entirety exclusively on SiriusXM satellite radio.  Not yet a SiriusXM subscriber?  Click here for a free trial subscription.

You can follow Don Cheadle on Twitter @iamdoncheadle and you can follow House of Lies @SHO_HouseofLies